Somachat Alayich - Episode 8 - Relationship Under Test?

00:02 Speaker 1 Somechas Alayich. Michal, how are you?

00:06 Speaker 2 Boruch Hashem. Somechas Alayich. Chani Marzel.

00:09 Speaker 1 So, we’re recording again.

00:11 Speaker 2 Another episode.

00:13 Speaker 1 Another episode.

00:13 Speaker 2 We had fun last time. Why not keep it going?

00:15 Speaker 1 Right. You asked me what the topic was, and I told you—

00:20 Speaker 2 What’s the topic?

00:20 Speaker 1 I’m coming with a topic that interests me.

00:22 Speaker 2 Yeah, it’s crazy that I have no idea what it’s about. I’m thinking—I don’t know—yeah, what?

00:26 Speaker 1 And that’s okay, I think.

00:27 Speaker 2 I’m going with the flow.

00:27 Speaker 1 I think that’s okay.

00:29 Speaker 2 I think so too.

00:31 Speaker 1 We’re now almost three weeks into a war. By the time this episode airs, we’ll probably already have the true—

00:40 Speaker 2 Amen.

00:41 Speaker 1 Complete Geulah.

00:41 Speaker 2 Amen.

00:41 Speaker 1 But everything stopped in a second. We’re used to that now—we had COVID and all sorts of things—but still, with your life and your work, you perform so much. Adar is an incredibly busy, full month for you, and then, in a single second, it all stops. You should see the look on her face...

01:08 Speaker 2 Me? Wow. What, did I order the Iranian missile?

01:14 Speaker 1 G-d forbid.

01:14 Speaker 2 G-d forbid.

01:15 Speaker 1 But I see you at the moshav, and you’re happy there.

01:19 Speaker 2 Yes.

01:19 Speaker 1 But do you adapt really quickly to everything? To every situation?

01:26 Speaker 2 I live in the present. I mean, I’m here, right now. I don’t live in tomorrow’s “what if.” Do you know I don’t even know where I’m performing tomorrow?

01:39 Speaker 1 Right, you don’t have a calendar.

01:40 Speaker 2 I don’t manage a calendar. Yossi handles all of that—my husband. I don’t live with it. At night I might ask him, “What do we have tomorrow?” if I’m curious. And if not, sometimes I’m already in the car, sometimes I’ve even arrived at the hall, and I ask, “Yossi, what city is this? Where are we?”

01:55 Speaker 1 Don’t you need to prepare for a show and speak with the people beforehand? How does that work?

01:59 Speaker 2 Look, for most shows—I’d say ninety-nine percent—people trust me. They say, “Just come,” because I read the audience. And even if they’ve prepared me, I might arrive and find a different audience. So, with all due respect—

02:09 Speaker 1 So you improvise.

02:10 Speaker 2 What I prepared won’t fit.

02:10 Speaker 1 You improvise.

02:11 Speaker 2 A lot. I have the basics more or less worked out. I have a suitcase with several characters, and I take a look at the audience and think, let’s see which one suits them better. I think I’ve told you that I can come out as one character and see that it isn’t right for this audience—

02:25 Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

02:25 Speaker 2 So I’m really not...

02:27 Speaker 1 But, but—

02:28 Speaker 2 It doesn’t bother me, and it doesn’t matter to me what city it is, or what ages they are, or what... It doesn’t...

02:33 Speaker 1 So as far as you’re concerned, you don’t have a calendar.

02:35 Speaker 2 Right.

02:36 Speaker 1 You don’t—you don’t know your schedule. You don’t have a calendar, you don’t have a bank, you don’t have—

02:39 Speaker 2 Right.

02:39 Speaker 1 Right now you’re Bibi—I don’t know how he reads it. But you do know when you’re in a busy month. I mean—

02:50 Speaker 2 Yes.

02:50 Speaker 1 That you’re—

02:51 Speaker 2 Yes.

02:52 Speaker 1 And I think that going onstage really fills you up.

02:55 Speaker 2 Completely, completely. I—

02:57 Speaker 1 And in one second, that stops.

02:59 Speaker 2 Right. But again, I still have the status. I mean, I’m still in that audience vibe.

03:05 Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

03:06 Speaker 2 And now I have the club, so I’m busy. I’m also a mother at home, and there are children who hardly saw me during the half month we were working. So...

03:17 Speaker 1 So you see it as a gift.

03:19 Speaker 2 Completely.

03:20 Speaker 1 Okay, but what did I mainly want to talk to you about?

03:24 Speaker 2 Oh, here it comes. Yes.

03:27 Speaker 1 You’ve been onstage for so many years. We did the first episodes as an introduction, really, to understand all that. Now I’m getting to what really interests me.

03:38 Speaker 2 Okay.

03:39 Speaker 1 How do you maintain your energy? We started talking about it in one of the episodes, but I still can’t quite understand it.

03:50 Speaker 2 Mm, okay.

03:50 Speaker 1 I mean, how do you keep that energy going, again and again and again? It’s as if your freshness never fades. And I already know you’re not afraid of what will happen if it stops. That isn’t your story; it isn’t what drives you. But how do you do it? I’m curious.

04:13 Speaker 2 I think we mentioned some of this too. I told you that every time, you get excited about your audiences—

04:18 Speaker 1 Yes, yes, but that’s not it. That’s not it.

04:21 Speaker 2 Because I approach it with “Hashem, open my lips.” And whatever messages the audience needs to hear—

04:27 Speaker 1 What do you get out of it? What do you get from standing onstage?

04:30 Speaker 2 Money.

04:31 Speaker 1 No. Again, that’s not what interests you either.

04:33 Speaker 2 I’d do a show for you even for [unclear].

04:34 Speaker 1 That isn’t what—right, that isn’t it either. You won’t convince me.

04:37 Speaker 2 Honestly, I don’t know. It’s funny.

04:39 Speaker 1 So that’s not it.

04:39 Speaker 2 Because there are rates and other business matters, and Yossi handles those.

04:42 Speaker 1 You know, we’ll talk about that in a moment too. You know you charge high rates, that you’re a brand. That’s all well and good, but it isn’t what drives you. Because if it were, then when everything stopped during the war—that’s part of the beauty of...

05:00 Speaker 2 Oh, oh!

05:02 Speaker 1 Is that your Pesach outfit?

05:03 Speaker 2 Yes.

05:03 Speaker 1 Wow, wow.

05:04 Speaker 2 As far as she’s concerned, it’s Pesach already.

05:06 Speaker 1 What a beautiful dress, Shira Hallel.

05:07 Speaker 2 Ooh!

05:10 Speaker 1 You’re so sweet. One second, let’s get back to it.

05:19 Speaker 2 Yes.

05:19 Speaker 1 So what I’m saying is, it’s not the...

05:22 Speaker 2 What, the energy?

05:24 Speaker 1 Yes.

05:24 Speaker 2 First of all, there really is a sense of shlichus. People are counting on me here. I need to bring them joy.

05:31 Speaker 1 I mean, I’m here to bring joy.

05:33 Speaker 2 Yes.

05:33 Speaker 1 Wherever I’m needed.

05:34 Speaker 2 Yes.

05:35 Speaker 1 Whatever was arranged, whatever Hakadosh Boruch Hu brought about and my manager booked. And...?

05:43 Speaker 2 And the energy. I mean, I can go onstage feeling completely drained. It happens. I have moments and periods like that, for all sorts of reasons, okay? I’m tired, I don’t feel well, somebody said something, somebody did something—it doesn’t matter. Everyone has reasons for feeling drained. I can go onstage and connect with that feeling. I don’t ignore it. I can go on and say—Make a call? What an amazing phone! Who should we call? This is what happens when you record a podcast in your living room. Who should we call?

06:22 Speaker 3 A friend.

06:23 Speaker 2 A friend. Okay. Hello. Hi. Are you Shira Hallel’s friend? Yes, Shira Hallel misses you. She hasn’t been at daycare for almost a month.

06:34 Speaker 1 Three weeks.

06:34 Speaker 2 Here, talk to her. Tell her she’s invited to our house. And when I go onstage, I can say, “Wow, what a day I’ve had.”

06:46 Speaker 1 You share that?

06:47 Speaker 2 Very much.

06:48 Speaker 1 Okay, and then what happens? You recharge?

06:51 Speaker 2 Of course. Together with the audience.

06:53 Speaker 1 Okay.

06:54 Speaker 2 “Who else? Who else came here today completely exhausted?”

06:58 Speaker 1 Wow.

06:58 Speaker 2 And this one and that one and another one, and...

07:00 Speaker 1 So you connect with them.

07:01 Speaker 2 Yes. I don’t put that feeling away in a drawer. I mean, look, sometimes the emotion I’m feeling is something difficult. Once I was told my grandfather had passed away, and I had to go onstage. It was five minutes before I went on.

07:15 Speaker 1 Wow. How do you do that?

07:16 Speaker 2 That painful feeling was so, so hard that I couldn’t express it to the audience. I didn’t feel it was right to tell them, “Listen, my grandfather just passed away.” It’s not—

07:27 Speaker 1 It’s too extreme.

07:28 Speaker 2 Exactly. So I simply put on a mask of joy and went onstage, with incredible drive.

07:36 Speaker 1 Wow.

07:36 Speaker 2 So I know how to do that too. I won’t put every feeling into words—

07:41 Speaker 1 Wow, you think everything through.

07:43 Speaker 2 So it’s...

07:46 Speaker 1 No, I—

07:46 Speaker 2 You need feeling and sensitivity, and you need to be ready and willing. You also have to consider who’s going to receive it. It is—yes, there are calculations. And I’m not good at math.

07:58 Speaker 1 You are. In the end, you’re good at math, and you’re a psychologist, and a performer—everything. Tell me, this business that you run with your husband, has that been the arrangement from the beginning?

08:09 Speaker 2 Mm, wow, you’ve dropped a big one on me. Look, it has been from the beginning, and it hasn’t. Because, let’s say—

08:22 Speaker 1 We had an episode where we talked about how you married young.

08:24 Speaker 2 Right.

08:25 Speaker 1 And were you still a singer then, or had that stopped? Did this grow out of singing?

08:28 Speaker 2 Right, right. And I started—

08:30 Speaker 1 And you started—

08:31 Speaker 2 Doing a kind of comedy performance. We didn’t even call it stand-up yet.

08:34 Speaker 1 What was it—sketches?

08:36 Speaker 2 Sketches, and... yes, people would contact me. I mean, they’d call me, and we’d put together a sketch based on the—

08:45 Speaker 1 That you wrote yourselves.

08:46 Speaker 2 Event, and we’d write it. I was pretty much handling all of that myself. I’d consult my husband about what to charge—what price to quote them. But it all went through me. I was more or less running that side of things.

08:59 Speaker 1 And how did that feel?

09:00 Speaker 2 It was very hard for me. Very hard to tell them the price.

09:05 Speaker 1 Really?

09:06 Speaker 2 Yes.

09:06 Speaker 1 The price he suggested—it wasn’t a price you would have chosen.

09:08 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes.

09:09 Speaker 1 Do you want to share some numbers, just what it was like at the beginning, or...?

09:11 Speaker 2 At the beginning it was, what, five hundred shekels, eight hundred shekels. Then it went up to two thousand shekels. Wow! I remember saying “two thousand shekels,” and my heart—my heart! Oh my goodness, would they accept it?

09:23 Speaker 1 You couldn’t breathe.

09:23 Speaker 2 I can’t breathe. And that’s it. Then, when we decided we really were raising prices because it was worth more, because it... I said, “Yossi, do you believe in the product? Go ahead.”

09:40 Speaker 1 What does that mean? What is it? Because there’s something almost magical here. Did he believe in you more than you believed in yourself?

09:49 Speaker 2 Look, I think we were pretty much in sync. I wouldn’t say I didn’t believe in myself, but I think he saw more of the potential...

10:01 Speaker 1 What? What did he see?

10:04 Speaker 2 I think we should bring him here.

10:06 Speaker 1 Yeah? You want to do an episode with him?

10:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that would be really relevant too.

10:10 Speaker 1 But give me your perspective. Give me your perspective for a moment.

10:13 Speaker 2 Honestly, to this day he dreams of me onstage with twenty musicians, women musicians.

10:20 Speaker 1 A singing show?

10:21 Speaker 2 Yes.

10:21 Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

10:22 Speaker 2 He’s still stuck on the idea that I’m a singer. He’s never going to get over it.

10:26 Speaker 1 Oh, really?

10:27 Speaker 2 Yes, completely.

10:29 Speaker 1 Wow. I thought he’d seen the potential in the stand-up.

10:34 Speaker 2 He didn’t really know that side of it.

10:35 Speaker 1 I’ll tell you what I saw from the outside. You know, we were classmates, and I’ve watched you grow from the sidelines. You have a husband who sees you and understands the brand.

10:48 Speaker 2 Right.

10:49 Speaker 1 He built a brand.

10:50 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely.

10:53 Speaker 1 And you went along with it beautifully. I mean, I don’t know if you would have done it on your own.

10:58 Speaker 2 Look, I think I would have gotten there.

11:01 Speaker 1 On your own?

11:01 Speaker 2 Maybe in another twenty years. More slowly, I mean.

11:06 Speaker 1 Yeah.

11:07 Speaker 2 I don’t know.

11:08 Speaker 1 You can’t know, but...

11:11 Speaker 2 Look, there were plenty of other productions and...

11:15 Speaker 1 No, I’m saying you’re talented in your own right—chas veshalom, I don’t mean otherwise. What I’m saying is that there’s something very interesting here, and it really could be interesting to do an episode with him about what happened there. I’m curious about the behind-the-scenes part, to understand how it works.

11:37 Speaker 2 Look—

11:37 Speaker 1 And let’s be honest, when a husband and wife work together, making it work is very, very challenging.

11:44 Speaker 2 I want to drop a little scoop here that the audience doesn’t know.

11:47 Speaker 1 Go on, go on.

11:48 Speaker 2 When I performed with Yifush, we’d been performing since we were fourteen—

11:53 Speaker 1 Okay.

11:53 Speaker 2 At Chabad Houses. And one of our performances was at the Chabad House run by the man who’s now my brother-in-law. The shliach in Givat Ada is my husband’s brother.

12:09 Speaker 1 Levitin, okay.

12:10 Speaker 2 Levitin. Of course, I didn’t know anything then, right? He invited me like any other shliach would.

12:16 Speaker 1 Yeah, she probably got there through connections and family there.

12:19 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. And Yossi was the one who brought the sound equipment for that event.

12:27 Speaker 1 Okay.

12:27 Speaker 2 He set up the sound system. He did a lot of events there. It turns out he’d loved sound equipment since he was a child, and he’d—

12:32 Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

12:34 Speaker 2 He did sound for family events and Chabad events and things like that. His mother was at that event, and he said to her—I only found this out a few years later, after we met—“She’s going to be my wife.” He said that about me to his mother.

12:49 Speaker 1 Are you serious?

12:50 Speaker 2 Yes.

12:51 Speaker 1 Why?

12:52 Speaker 2 I don’t know. I don’t know how much he saw or what he saw, but back then I was a singer, okay?

12:58 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

13:01 Speaker 2 I was emceeing and doing a little bit of that sort of thing, you know.

13:03 Speaker 1 You were a singer, and like I said, you threw in a few punch lines.

13:05 Speaker 2 Exactly. So...

13:08 Speaker 1 Okay. Well, I have to say—

13:08 Speaker 2 He was there handling the sound. Of course, afterward they had all the men leave, but he was there for the setup. And it took a long time to convince my mother-in-law that I hadn’t known him since then.

13:22 Speaker 1 Oh.

13:22 Speaker 2 She was sure I’d known him from that time. No, just kidding. It was this sort of...

13:28 Speaker 1 Wow.

13:29 Speaker 2 Yeah.

13:29 Speaker 1 Listen, that really is a scoop.

13:31 Speaker 2 Yes, it is.

13:32 Speaker 1 But how does it work? How do you work together?

13:38 Speaker 2 Wow, it works amazingly.

13:40 Speaker 1 What does it take?

13:42 Speaker 2 Um.

13:42 Speaker 1 You have to work at it.

13:44 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. There’s a lot of listening, a lot of quiet, a lot of communicating without words. I think he learned—and we learned together—to understand each other in the quiet. People think that when we travel to performances together, we must have so much quality time, that we must talk so much. If someone put a camera in our car, they’d see it’s mostly quiet.

14:08 Speaker 1 Why?

14:08 Speaker 2 Because on the way there, the quiet lets me gather my energy for the show, and I’m all in. I’m thinking: What am I going to give today? Have new things happened in the world? Are there things I want to give? Is there something... I’m preparing for the show during the drive.

14:23 Speaker 1 Wow.

14:24 Speaker 2 That’s my quiet time. I leave the house and start thinking about the performance. Yes, you’re right. You’re right. And not just right—you’re managing the situation too.

14:40 Speaker 1 In the middle of the drama.

14:42 Speaker 2 Okay, fine. And on the way back, after I’ve spoken onstage for almost two hours...

14:51 Speaker 1 It drains the—

14:52 Speaker 2 There’s no talking. None at all.

14:55 Speaker 1 But ultimately, you two run this business, this brand.

15:01 Speaker 2 Shira, [unclear], come on, come on, come on. Whoa, what happened?

15:07 Speaker 1 What? You’re right.

15:10 Speaker 2 You’re right. Oh. You’re right.

15:15 Speaker 1 Wait, are we keeping all of this?

15:20 Speaker 2 Oh. We’ll cut it in the edit.

15:23 Speaker 1 Put on some music.

15:24 Speaker 2 Yes. Is that enough for you? Yes, great.

15:31 Speaker 1 Give us some music. Great. Come on, give me some energy. Okay, we’re back to the episode.

15:42 Speaker 2 Back to the episode. Where were we?

15:46 Speaker 1 I was saying that ultimately, you’re holding this together as a team.

15:48 Speaker 2 Right.

15:49 Speaker 1 Do you have defined roles? How does it work?

15:53 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, absolutely. He handles all the technical things: booking the events, payments, driving me there and back, making sure I do the sound check—everything. He carries the suitcase, opens it in the dressing room, makes sure there’s water, and connects the microphone we bring with us.

16:19 Speaker 1 And you’re relaxed.

16:20 Speaker 2 And I’m relaxed. I know all I have to do is get onstage and give the performance.

16:25 Speaker 1 And afterward, ask what else is on the schedule.

16:27 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. What’s the next performance, or what’s next?

16:31 Speaker 1 And do you realize that you’re—do you realize you’re unusual? That you’re not conventional?

16:37 Speaker 2 That I’m a rare sight. I don’t think I’m weird. Wait, does Rainy [unclear] want to as well? Yes.

16:42 Speaker 4 To throw the ball.

16:43 Speaker 2 What do you want?

16:43 Speaker 4 To throw the ball.

16:44 Speaker 2 Yes, you can throw a ball.

16:47 Speaker 1 What’s it like recording a podcast at home?

16:50 Speaker 2 Weird? Come on, rare.

16:52 Speaker 1 Exactly, exactly. Not weird. You’re right, sorry. Unconventional.

16:56 Speaker 2 Unconventional. Ultimately, we both genuinely want this to work and to enjoy it. So...

17:07 Speaker 1 And what do you do on a day when you go out together and, at the end of the day, you’re a couple? Sometimes there are arguments too.

17:14 Speaker 2 Look, our arguments—and we do have arguments—are very, how should I put it? They’re resolvable.

17:24 Speaker 1 What do you mean?

17:25 Speaker 2 I mean...

17:26 Speaker 1 What, you put on a show?

17:27 Speaker 2 I can—

17:27 Speaker 1 You put on a comedy?

17:29 Speaker 2 Ultimately, let’s say he learned to... How do I... I’m looking for the words. I learned, and he learned—

17:39 Speaker 1 We learned together.

17:39 Speaker 2 We learned together that it’s a kind of release. It’s not personal. Okay?

17:45 Speaker 1 Then come on, give us some tips about that.

17:47 Speaker 2 Say I’m upset now: “Why was it like that? Why did you set the sound that way? You know I like it this way. You saw—”

17:56 Speaker 1 Wait, let me take the professional side out of it.

17:57 Speaker 2 Yes.

17:58 Speaker 1 You’re also a couple. You have a relationship together.

18:02 Speaker 2 Right.

18:03 Speaker 1 Okay?

18:03 Speaker 2 Yes.

18:03 Speaker 1 I’m not talking about the professional side. That’s more like a boss and an employee.

18:07 Speaker 2 Okay.

18:07 Speaker 1 Something happened. You had a morning, you had a day, and... Or tell me that doesn’t happen.

18:13 Speaker 2 No, it happens. Of course it happens.

18:14 Speaker 1 How do you go out together afterward, and how do you recharge emotionally?

18:17 Speaker 2 Because I separate—

18:18 Speaker 1 You work together.

18:18 Speaker 2 I make a clear separation between what upset me in the argument and the person he is—the person I lean on and always love—regardless of an upsetting thing he did, something that happened.

18:32 Speaker 1 Try to explain that more precisely.

18:33 Speaker 2 I mean, I don’t... With my children and with my husband, when something happens, some disagreement, some...

18:44 Speaker 1 Let’s say you were hurt.

18:45 Speaker 2 An incident.

18:45 Speaker 1 Let’s say you were hurt.

18:46 Speaker 2 I was hurt.

18:47 Speaker 1 Yes.

18:47 Speaker 2 Okay, first I’ll show every sign that I’m hurt, and if he doesn’t pick up on it, I’ll say it.

18:53 Speaker 1 Okay.

18:53 Speaker 2 I’ll say, “You know, I was hurt by...” But I don’t see him as a hurtful person. I see that he did something, and that particular action—

19:03 Speaker 1 Something he did hurt you.

19:04 Speaker 2 Hurt me. It’s something very specific.

19:06 Speaker 1 You make that distinction.

19:07 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Yes? I know you’re great at throwing the ball, but only over there by the couch. Wonderful. I know how to separate the person from the action. It doesn’t take away from the fact that I love him and appreciate him and...

19:32 Speaker 1 And see the good in him.

19:33 Speaker 2 And see the good. I was hurt by that particular thing. Come on, let’s talk about it.

19:37 Speaker 1 So where’s your ego?

19:45 Speaker 2 I’m trying to understand the question.

19:47 Speaker 1 No. In the end—

19:48 Speaker 2 But when he hurt me, it wasn’t—

19:51 Speaker 1 But you don’t have an ego? You didn’t have one? Your ego doesn’t run the show? It doesn’t?

19:55 Speaker 2 No, because I know—

19:56 Speaker 1 Never?

19:58 Speaker 2 I don’t even understand the question, because, I mean—

20:00 Speaker 1 All right, then I guess I’ll conclude that you’re strange. Sorry.

20:03 Speaker 2 No, because, listen, we’re people who— We chose to get married, and we chose to build a home and a family—

20:09 Speaker 1 Yes.

20:09 Speaker 2 And that’s very clear and solid for me. I mean, it’s clear to me that he hurt me in a particular way.

20:17 Speaker 1 Okay, you’re saying, “He hurt me, I was hurt.” Fine.

20:19 Speaker 2 I was hurt.

20:19 Speaker 1 I’m with you on that.

20:20 Speaker 2 It’s clear to me that it came from a lack of thoughtfulness.

20:24 Speaker 1 Okay.

20:24 Speaker 2 And that he didn’t directly intend to hurt me.

20:28 Speaker 1 That’s always clear to you?

20:29 Speaker 2 Yes.

20:30 Speaker 1 Is that how you see everyone in the world?

20:33 Speaker 2 Um, I don’t know about everyone in the world, but even if someone else hurts me, there’s a reason for it, there’s meaning to it, and usually it’s about them.

20:41 Speaker 1 Wow.

20:44 Speaker 2 I mean, if it reached my ears, there’s something I can take from it. But I won’t take it to heart as a statement about who or what I am. It came from them.

20:56 Speaker 1 Wow.

20:56 Speaker 2 So I know that if my husband hurt me, first of all, something was going on with him. It’s very clear to me that he was feeling some kind of resentment at that moment.

21:09 Speaker 1 So you’re like his therapist?

21:11 Speaker 2 Not his therapist, but usually a person who hurts someone is weak in some way. Something in him wasn’t strong enough.

21:19 Speaker 1 So again you’re saying, “I don’t have an ego.” You’re making me nervous.

21:24 Speaker 2 No, because I—I say to myself... Give me an example.

21:27 Speaker 1 How did you get to this place?

21:29 Speaker 2 How did I get to this place?

21:30 Speaker 1 Where does this belief come from?

21:31 Speaker 2 Because...

21:31 Speaker 1 Were you already like this at eighteen?

21:35 Speaker 2 First of all, there’s Tanya here. Come on, at the end of the day, we’re G-dly souls. I mean, there’s one soul and another soul. If negative things have gotten into him right now, then the evil inclina— the animal soul has come into play here... No, I’m not going to let it. I’m not going to let it ruin the evening.

21:51 Speaker 1 Wow. When do you fall?

21:54 Speaker 2 When do I fall?

21:56 Speaker 1 Tell me something. I’m a real soldier here.

21:58 Speaker 2 First of all, um, health worries stress me out. That’s something I can be afraid of, um...

22:05 Speaker 1 No, when do you fall and let your ego run the show?

22:07 Speaker 2 Oh, when my ego runs the show?

22:08 Speaker 1 Should I be worried that I’m sitting here with some kind of tzaddik?

22:11 Speaker 2 No, no. Give me an example. I don’t know what it means for my ego to run the show.

22:14 Speaker 1 I’m trying to think about myself, um...

22:18 Speaker 2 Give me a high five.

22:20 Speaker 1 I can see it in myself; I recognize it. I mean, I know I can work on myself, and I’m self-aware and growing and all that, but it’s דווקא in my marriage that my ego suddenly shows up. It’s very, very... What do I feel my ego is doing? It’s like it’s protecting me. “Don’t—don’t give in there.” It sounds like you don’t have that at all. Now maybe I’m the strange one. I don’t know.

22:50 Speaker 2 Look, I don’t know. I just know that when you give in—I don’t know if “give in” is what you call it. I don’t like that phrase. Uh...

23:03 Speaker 1 It means not letting your ego run the show. Simple as that.

23:05 Speaker 2 Yes, okay. Maybe so.

23:06 Speaker 1 But you also do things without noticing. You get upset.

23:09 Speaker 2 True.

23:10 Speaker 1 Yes. It’s not fair.

23:12 Speaker 2 True.

23:13 Speaker 1 Well, good for you, baruch Hashem, but I’m giving you the words. I’m helping you put it into words.

23:21 Speaker 2 Look, nobody gains anything by holding on to their ego.

23:25 Speaker 1 Of course.

23:25 Speaker 2 It doesn’t lead anywhere.

23:26 Speaker 1 Of course, and I always know that. But putting it into practice is very, very hard.

23:31 Speaker 2 So okay, I might hold on to my ego for half an hour, be upset for an hour. That’s it. After that, it’s just not...

23:37 Speaker 1 You’re not enjoying yourself.

23:38 Speaker 2 No.

23:38 Speaker 1 And you make sure you enjoy yourself.

23:39 Speaker 2 That I enjoy myself. Sorry, why should I suffer because of my ego and ruin the evening? Why? Let’s settle it.

23:49 Speaker 1 So you really can offer tips on marriage, because I don’t think you...

23:53 Speaker 2 No, huh?

23:54 Speaker 1 I don’t think you understand.

23:55 Speaker 2 First of all, I understand very well. It’s not true that I don’t understand.

23:59 Speaker 1 Yes. No, I’m sure you’ve worked on this.

24:00 Speaker 2 Within myself, I—

24:01 Speaker 1 No, I’m also sure you’ve worked on this. I don’t think you were born this way.

24:04 Speaker 2 Um, yes, yes, I’ve worked on it, especially since I live with a very sensitive husband, super sensitive. I mean, I’m the one who can hurt him more than he can hurt me.

24:17 Speaker 1 Wow.

24:17 Speaker 2 Let’s put—

24:19 Speaker 1 Okay.

24:19 Speaker 2 Let’s put that on the table.

24:20 Speaker 1 Okay, so he’s not like you.

24:22 Speaker 2 Right.

24:22 Speaker 1 Apparently.

24:23 Speaker 2 But I taught him.

24:25 Speaker 1 What did you teach him?

24:27 Speaker 2 To talk. Just to talk.

24:29 Speaker 1 So the secret is talking.

24:31 Speaker 2 Yes. I told him, “Listen, I can’t guess what hurt you if you don’t tell me. I’m not a prophet.”

24:36 Speaker 1 And has he managed to?

24:37 Speaker 2 Yes. Well, what does “managed” mean? He worked on it. It was very, very hard for him. Very hard, but he worked on it. He saw that it was simply worth it. I told him, “Listen, fine. Don’t talk. The evening’s ruined. What will you gain? Nothing. I’m not here.”

24:55 Speaker 1 Wow.

24:55 Speaker 2 So—

24:55 Speaker 1 And did you work on yourself so you wouldn’t hurt him?

24:58 Speaker 2 Yes, and I still do... Listen, this whole arrangement requires a lot of work on my ego. I can’t tell you I don’t have one, because at the end of the day, let’s put it on the table. I’m basically the breadwinner. If we go by titles, by what people see, right? And nobody knows that he’s the producer and the... and that without him, none of it would amount to anything. That’s something I had to build up, to give him that place.

25:31 Speaker 1 And what did you—how did you do that?

25:34 Speaker 2 How did I do it? First of all, at home, within the family. The kids want money? Uh, no, Dad’s in charge. I mean—

25:43 Speaker 1 So the fact that you don’t handle the money is one of your strategies—

25:49 Speaker 2 Right.

25:50 Speaker 1 For conveying that it’s all his, and that you’re not the one behind it.

25:52 Speaker 2 Completely, completely. It’s about giving him his place in it.

25:58 Speaker 1 Wow.

25:59 Speaker 2 I think for years he went around feeling that he wasn’t really working. I mean, what is making phone calls, arranging events? He didn’t feel how significant his role was. That took time to build, too. Come on, that also—

26:12 Speaker 1 Of course, but essentially you—

26:14 Speaker 2 And I kept giving it—

26:16 Speaker 1 Why? Because it was important to you?

26:18 Speaker 2 Because—because yes. Because yes. As far as I’m concerned, I do what I love. In my view, the man is the breadwinner.

26:30 Speaker 1 Wow.

26:30 Speaker 2 He’s the one who needs to bring money home, not me. And in the way I feel, and the vibe I give him—and that’s not simple at all.

26:45 Speaker 1 What isn’t simple?

26:45 Speaker 2 That it all comes from him. That it’s him. That I can do this because of him.

26:48 Speaker 1 So it isn’t simple for him at all.

26:50 Speaker 2 No, because he—he—

26:52 Speaker 1 He had to believe it.

26:53 Speaker 2 Believe it, exactly.

26:55 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

26:56 Speaker 2 For years, he felt like he wasn’t doing anything. What does he do? Nothing.

27:00 Speaker 1 Wow.

27:01 Speaker 2 And I tell him, “No, no, no. It’s all you.”

27:04 Speaker 1 Okay.

27:04 Speaker 2 “Because without you, I can’t. I can’t keep this whole thing going.” So, um...

27:13 Speaker 1 Listen, you’ve brought up some interesting things here, huh?

27:17 Speaker 2 What happened? What happened?

27:19 Speaker 5 I’m here.

27:20 Speaker 2 Right, and she was here, and I’m here too. We’re all here.

27:25 Speaker 1 As long as you’re not speaking into the microphone, they can’t hear how you’re, uh, managing things.

27:28 Speaker 2 How I’m managing the situation? It’s wartime. People are doing Zoom calls with their kids all over them.

27:35 Speaker 1 Yes.

27:36 Speaker 2 Right. Who can you ask?

27:42 Speaker 1 So come on, let’s wrap up the episode.

27:44 Speaker 2 Yes.

27:44 Speaker 1 How do you feel after this episode?

27:46 Speaker 2 Um, I think you’ve learned some more things about me that...

27:49 Speaker 1 Listen, you’re really, uh, peeling back the layers.

27:53 Speaker 2 Yes, completely.

27:55 Speaker 1 So, uh, wow.

27:56 Speaker 2 Uh, you know—

27:57 Speaker 1 At the end of the day, the ego really doesn’t serve us. But I hope we draw strength from this, and that it comes easily.

28:06 Speaker 2 Amen, amen.

28:07 Speaker 1 Can I tell you something interesting? Um, on the eve of Yom Kippur—just to finish—on the eve of Yom Kippur, you know how you get lots of “Sorry if I hurt you, sorry if I hurt you, sorry if I hurt you”? I was like, I don’t understand “if I hurt you.” Did you hurt me? No? Am I supposed to remember whether you did? So I put together an image that said—I wrote at first, “I thank everyone who hurt me along the way. Because of them, I am who I am today.”

28:34 Speaker 2 Wow.

28:35 Speaker 1 But then I changed it and said, “Nobody hurt me. I was hurt.”

28:40 Speaker 2 Beautiful.

28:41 Speaker 1 “Sorry to those whose actions hurt me”—

28:43 Speaker 2 There’s a choice in that.

28:43 Speaker 1 Yes.

28:44 Speaker 2 Because you can also choose not to be hurt.

28:46 Speaker 1 I don’t think a person stood there and— There are people who hurt others and are cruel, okay? But I think that in my experience, I was hurt by people along the way, not because they meant to hurt me, but I was hurt.

28:56 Speaker 2 Wait, wait, wait, girls, wait. What? What?

28:59 Speaker 1 And...

29:01 Speaker 2 The pacifier? Brini[?] wants a pacifier.

29:04 Speaker 1 So...

29:07 Speaker 2 This is going downhill.

29:09 Speaker 1 So we’ll end here. And thank you, Michal.

29:12 Speaker 2 A song of praise.

29:13 Speaker 1 And maybe the next episode really will be with Yossi.