Episode 57: "I didn't even know what autism was" | With Shelly Chaimov, influencer and mother of a special-needs child

00:00 Speaker 1 Raising a child on the autism spectrum isn’t just about not hearing the words “Mom, I love you.” It goes far, far beyond that. I sat down with Shelly Haimov, a special mother who shares glimpses of her family’s life online, including life with eight-year-old Ariel, who changes the whole picture. She raises awareness and offers an authentic, moving perspective on the world of autism. What reactions does she get? What have women done after watching what she shares? How did they realize something was wrong in the first place? And what gives her strength in the difficult moments? Come listen to a fascinating heart-to-heart conversation. A reminder: if you liked this episode, don’t keep it to yourself. Pass it on and share it with your sister, your mother, a neighbor or a friend—anyone who matters to you. To follow me on Instagram, search for Chani Moskowitz. To follow my status, book workshops and talks on life-changing tools from Chassidus, or learn about the process of health as a way of life, everything is available at 050-850-5770. Intro, and we’ll get started right away.

01:04 Speaker 1 How can we turn our lives into lives of shlichus, full of meaning? I’m Chani Moskowitz, a shlucha in Kharkov, Ukraine, now continuing our shlichus in Karmei Gat, Israel. In this podcast, we’ll meet different women who bring their shlichus to a variety of fields, and through their stories, help each of us find and refine our own shlichus in the world. Because living the lives we were created to live is as good as it gets. Shlichus as a way of life. We’re starting right now. All right, here we go. A new episode of the Shlichus as a Way of Life podcast, and today we have a special guest. How are you?

01:39 Speaker 2 Hi, nice to meet you. How’s it going?

01:41 Speaker 1 Boruch Hashem. I’ve been waiting a long time to record with you, and I’m not the only one.

01:44 Speaker 2 Wow, that’s so nice to hear! Thank you.

01:46 Speaker 1 Yes. Actually, maybe I’ll take a second to tell how this came about.

01:50 Speaker 2 Go for it.

01:50 Speaker 1 I got messages from quite a few women: “Chani, listen, there’s a woman named Shelly Haimov. You have to do a podcast with her. She has to tell us what goes on behind the scenes. We want to hear it, we want to hear it, we want to hear it.” And then we met by chance.

02:03 Speaker 2 Right.

02:04 Speaker 1 At a private get-together, of course.

02:05 Speaker 2 Yes.

02:06 Speaker 1 I said to you, “Oh, that’s you! You’re Shelly!” And it all clicked. So why did we wait a few months? Because I wanted to follow you and get to know you.

02:14 Speaker 2 Right.

02:14 Speaker 1 And see. By the way, people told me you were from Kiryat Malachi. I said, “How do I not know her?”

02:18 Speaker 2 Well, because I’m not from there.

02:19 Speaker 1 Right.

02:20 Speaker 2 My husband is.

02:20 Speaker 1 Also, I’m really realizing how much Kiryat Malachi has grown. I honestly used to know everyone, and that’s definitely not the case anymore.

02:27 Speaker 2 Yes.

02:28 Speaker 1 Anyway, I followed you and watched, and I understood what they meant. So...

02:33 Speaker 2 Wow, that’s so nice to hear.

02:34 Speaker 1 Yes. So I think we’ll dive in. By the way, we were talking here and thinking about what women would be interested in hearing. There are the questions people usually ask you, and you post questions every Motzaei Shabbos.

02:46 Speaker 2 Right.

02:47 Speaker 1 And you can’t really give an answer—

02:49 Speaker 2 A full answer.

02:50 Speaker 1 A full one.

02:51 Speaker 2 Yes.

02:51 Speaker 1 Yes.

02:51 Speaker 2 It’s always about a minute long. Little moments from life.

02:53 Speaker 1 Just a few words. Yes. So first, introduce yourself to anyone who might not know you—and to those who do, too.

02:59 Speaker 2 Okay, nice to meet you. I’m Shelly Haimov, I’m thirty-one, I live in Kiryat Malachi, and I’m a mother of four. We have a special child, Ariel. He’s eight, and I share our everyday life on social media: what it’s like to be the mother of a child like him, what it’s like to be parents to a child like him, and how it affects the whole family—his siblings and the whole family dynamic. I share it from our side. It makes a lot of people curious. I get so many questions and so many reactions. Some people don’t even know what autism is, which really surprised me.

03:39 Speaker 1 That’s interesting.

03:39 Speaker 2 Yes.

03:40 Speaker 1 Even to me, it feels so...

03:41 Speaker 2 Familiar?

03:42 Speaker 1 Well, I’ve also studied the field, but still, it seems like something people hear about. Though I guess until you actually think about it—

03:48 Speaker 2 But I have to say that until I had a child like this, I knew about autism, but only in the broadest sense of the word. I didn’t know the details in depth.

03:57 Speaker 1 It was far removed from your life.

03:58 Speaker 2 Yes. I also used to get Down syndrome and autism very mixed up. I sort of lumped them all together.

04:04 Speaker 1 Put them in the same category.

04:04 Speaker 2 Yes, as though it was all one world of special children, and that was it.

04:08 Speaker 1 Special needs. One label.

04:09 Speaker 2 Something like that.

04:10 Speaker 1 So how did you actually realize something was going on?

04:12 Speaker 2 Um.

04:12 Speaker 1 Because children with autism are born looking like any other child.

04:16 Speaker 2 Like any other child. Yes, that’s exactly the thing. He’s my second child, born after Sapir, and he really did seem like any other baby. Then, at around four or five months, I suddenly noticed that his development wasn’t typical. It really helped that he was my second child, so I had a sense of what typical development looked like.

04:37 Speaker 1 You were still very observant.

04:39 Speaker 2 Yes.

04:40 Speaker 1 No, and a lot of the time there are all sorts of delays, and people say, “It’s fine, it’s nothing—there’s a range.”

04:44 Speaker 2 Right, but I didn’t immediately zero in on it and say, “Okay, my child is autistic.” No, it wasn’t like that.

04:48 Speaker 1 Something set off an alarm for you.

04:49 Speaker 2 A red flag went up for me, and I understood that we needed to look into it and find out what was going on with him. For example, why wasn’t he tracking things with his eyes? When he was four months old, I’d play with him, you know, put toys above his head, and most babies usually respond. They move their eyes, laugh and smile at you. But he didn’t respond. He was very unresponsive. He had this look. He could see, but he’d just stare at a particular spot, and that was it. He didn’t really respond to what was around him. He was also a baby who cried a great deal, and it was always very hard to calm him down. So I started looking into it. First I went to the doctor, our family doctor, and she referred me to child development services. That’s when we began the assessment process. I really didn’t know what was going on with him. I remember going to the speech therapist and occupational therapy, and I kept asking, “Can you tell me what’s causing my child’s developmental delay?” They wouldn’t tell me. I came to understand that they probably weren’t allowed to say anything until they’d checked everything. They didn’t want to throw out an answer without being sure. So we began the assessments. Deep down, I felt I knew it was autism, but...

06:06 Speaker 1 But when did you first come across the term?

06:08 Speaker 2 I started researching it—just searching on Google. I began looking at the signs: okay, this and this and this. So it was probably heading in that direction. But it still wasn’t one hundred percent certain. It could be, or it might not be. You’re in this state of uncertainty until someone actually tells you and makes it official. You don’t want it to be true. You’re in a kind of denial: maybe it isn’t that, maybe it’s something else. As a baby, he also had pauses in his breathing, and he had surgery to remove his adenoids and tonsils. They said that might also be the reason for his delay. But after the surgery, I saw that he wasn’t starting to close the gaps and catch up. Then I understood that it really could be autism—that yes, it was. That’s how it began. I remember I was a very young mother, twenty-three years old, with Sapir and him. I got to the point where I had to leave my job, because there was always something: okay, a speech therapist. He needed speech therapy, so I had to take him there every week, and to occupational therapy once a week too. I was running from one place to another all the time.

07:21 Speaker 1 And through all this, they still hadn’t diagnosed him?

07:23 Speaker 2 No, they hadn’t, because he had to see a developmental pediatrician and go through a whole series of assessments with many different professionals before they could reach a diagnosis. They didn’t want to rush, either, because he was very young. We started when he was around one. As I told you, at six months it was first physiotherapy and things like that. His development was delayed both cognitively and in his motor skills—physically. So we helped him with physiotherapy and things like that, and cognitively there were also very big gaps compared with children his age. They didn’t want to rush because he was so young. They wanted to really check and confirm it only when he was three. So it took almost two years, or more, before they gave us the final diagnosis that he was on the spectrum.

08:11 Speaker 1 Oh, that’s so hard.

08:12 Speaker 2 Yes, I really will never forget that day. It was like...

08:14 Speaker 1 How do you tell the parents?

08:15 Speaker 2 Like a bombshell.

08:16 Speaker 1 They’re sitting there.

08:17 Speaker 2 Um, so actually... Wow, for me it was even more complicated, because I had just been discharged after... I’d had an ectopic pregnancy.

08:27 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

08:27 Speaker 2 Yes, and I’d been hospitalized. I’d also had a kind of surgery, and things got a little complicated. Then, on the day I was discharged from the hospital after the ectopic pregnancy—when you’re still trying to process it all and you’re still feeling really down—the social worker from Maccabi’s child development department called me and said, “Hello, you’re Ariel’s parents. I’d like to schedule a meeting with you. I have something very important to tell you, and I can’t do it over the phone. I need you to come in.”

08:58 Speaker 1 Oh, wow, after—

08:59 Speaker 2 And this happened right as I was being discharged from the hospital. It was the hardest day—I remember it so clearly. We went in. She’d called at about ten in the morning and said, “Okay, when can you come? Come today.” So we went straight there from the hospital. When we arrived, my husband and I both more or less knew. We had an idea. But, you know, actually hearing that this was the final diagnosis, that this was what the doctors thought after all the tests, was still such a bombshell. I remember when she told me, I felt dizzy and dazed. You know, you’re a young mother, and suddenly this lands in the middle of your life: okay, he’s autistic. And you have no idea what happens next. What do you do now? What do you do tomorrow? I remember all these questions immediately flooding my mind. Exactly. I also started thinking far ahead: What would happen? Would he get married or not? Would he serve in the army or not? Would he work? Would he— So many, many questions come up when you’re the mother of a child, about what his future will be. I remember I had so many questions, and she told me, “There’s no way to know.” Think about it: today he’s eight, and I’ve had time to process the diagnosis, understand it, and come to terms with it. But back then, when you’re a young mother and he’s three, your whole inner world is in turmoil. I remember thinking, What will happen? How will things turn out? How will we manage? At that moment I wasn’t having difficulty

10:38 Speaker 2 with him, but I was thinking so much about the future.

10:42 Speaker 1 That feeling of helplessness, of—

10:43 Speaker 2 Exactly. It’s...

10:44 Speaker 1 Uncertainty.

10:45 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly.

10:46 Speaker 1 Was there also some relief at some point, maybe, because there was a name for everything you were experiencing with him?

10:54 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. There was relief because suddenly I understood where all these things were coming from. It was like having it confirmed. Suddenly you understand what’s going on with your child, and now you can say, okay, how can I help him?

11:06 Speaker 1 You can get the right tools.

11:06 Speaker 2 And give him the tools and the things that suit him, and make things easier for him. So yes, there was some of that. But I still remember being very shaken and having so, so many questions. Okay, what do I do now? It was August, and he was supposed to start municipal kindergarten. By the way, when he was younger, he’d been in a regular daycare. His caregiver kept telling me, “He’s always off to the side. He doesn’t play with the other children. He doesn’t want to be with anyone.” So I knew, but I didn’t...

11:42 Speaker 1 No, and when you don’t really know the terminology or understand it from the inside, you can always give it some other label. I don’t know—say he’s a difficult child, a strange child, something like that.

11:54 Speaker 2 Right. There are lots of signs.

11:55 Speaker 1 I’ll just tell you that in the former Soviet Union—I don’t know, maybe things have changed a little today—I was an elementary-school teacher for a few years. There were several children there who I remember thinking were definitely on the spectrum, and not even particularly high-functioning. But there’s no awareness there.

12:09 Speaker 2 There’s no awareness there, no.

12:10 Speaker 1 They hardly diagnose it, so everyone just calls the child strange, difficult, whatever. Yes. So—

12:15 Speaker 2 If you go back fifty, sixty, seventy years, that’s how it was. Today there’s so much more awareness.

12:21 Speaker 1 So the child sort of survives kindergarten.

12:22 Speaker 2 Exactly.

12:23 Speaker 1 But not really in a healthy way.

12:25 Speaker 2 Right. So I remember fighting really hard. It was August, just a few days before September first, and I thought, okay, what do I do now? Where do I send him? Where do I place him? So I went to the municipality. The women there were lovely; they helped me. And—

12:41 Speaker 1 These things take time.

12:43 Speaker 2 Right, but here—

12:44 Speaker 1 Committees and all that.

12:44 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, true. But with him, they actually placed him straightaway in a kindergarten—not in Kiryat Malachi, but in Yad Binyamin. I remember being worried. I thought, he’s three years old. How can I send him on a school bus every morning? How will he get home? It frightened me. He was practically a baby, such a little child—

13:04 Speaker 1 Wow, that’s amazing.

13:04 Speaker 2 He wasn’t even out of diapers yet, nothing. By the way, we toilet-trained him at five and a half, after—

13:09 Speaker 1 Wow.

13:10 Speaker 2 A lot of work. Yes, it was very hard, but boruch Hashem, we succeeded.

13:14 Speaker 1 That’s just what I mean: you can’t take anything for granted.

13:16 Speaker 2 Yes, you really can’t. Even in our day-to-day lives, every little bit of progress is an incredible achievement for us. You really can’t take even the simple, ordinary, little things for granted—getting dressed in the morning, taking a shower, eating on his own. With a typical child you take those things for granted, but with him, every bit of progress is an incredible achievement. Yes.

13:38 Speaker 1 Wow.

13:39 Speaker 2 So we quickly got him placed in a kindergarten for children with communication needs in Yad Binyamin. I remember being worried. I spoke with the teacher and asked how it would work and everything. But boruch Hashem, it turned out to be a really, really good kindergarten for him, and it had the whole range of support he needed. He was there for three years.

14:02 Speaker 1 Oh, wow. So it’s—

14:04 Speaker 2 It’s a mixed-age kindergarten, from age three to six.

14:08 Speaker 1 Did you try taking him every day, there and back?

14:10 Speaker 2 At first I did, because he was so, so little, and sending him on a school bus seemed very strange to me. But gradually he started taking the bus, with an escort who accompanied him there and back. Yes. By the way, even today he goes to Magen Halev in Ashdod. It’s also a school for children with communication needs, and he goes and comes back by bus every day. Of course, he has an escort. I bring him to the escort and pick him up from her, so...

14:38 Speaker 1 Yes. Wow.

14:39 Speaker 2 Yes. So as he got older, the gaps grew along with him. If I compare Ariel at eight with Ariel at three, it’s... People also always ask me how I managed. After him, I had twins who are four now.

15:01 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

15:02 Speaker 2 People always ask me—

15:03 Speaker 1 Sweethearts.

15:04 Speaker 2 Yes, they’re adorable. They were also born during COVID. That was such a—

15:09 Speaker 1 Do twins run in your family?

15:10 Speaker 2 My sister has twins.

15:12 Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

15:12 Speaker 2 Yes.

15:13 Speaker 1 So it wasn’t completely out of the blue—but I’m sure you were shocked.

15:15 Speaker 2 I was. I was shocked already when I was pregnant with them. I was really in shock, and I kept thinking, wow, how will I manage? What will happen, with two babies and everything?

15:23 Speaker 1 That’s incredible. And he was only four.

15:24 Speaker 2 Yes, he was four when they were born. When I became pregnant with them, he was three and a bit.

15:30 Speaker 1 Wow.

15:31 Speaker 2 Yes, but in the end it worked out for the best, because I gave birth to them during COVID and my husband was home with me. He helped me, and together we managed everything. That was when I started sharing. After they were born, during COVID, I started sharing about Ariel, about having a child with special needs. It also helped me let it out. It really helped me share it with the world. Then I suddenly started getting responses from women who related to it, and all kinds of responses that really helped me. Lots of women also shared that they were going through it too. And once you know you’re not going through it alone, that there are other women going through it as well, it sort of gives you—

16:17 Speaker 1 How did you suddenly get started? Because in the end you have to build some kind of circle, right? Did you just start sharing with the people who were already following you, who were already connected with you—

16:25 Speaker 2 Exactly. It was mostly on WhatsApp statuses, with my contacts, my very personal, very close circle. And slowly, friends of friends started finding me. I began getting messages from women saying, “I want to follow your statuses. I found you through a friend of mine, who’s a friend of yours.” That’s how it grew and gained momentum. People were really interested. People who have children like him would tell me, “We get strength from you.” But also perfectly ordinary families who don’t have a child with special needs said, “You give us perspective. We see you dealing with what you’re dealing with, and it gives us strength. Suddenly we realize that, okay, if my child did this or that...” And a lot of my followers work in special education—school principals, teachers, preschool teachers—and they tell me, “We love seeing the other side.”

17:26 Speaker 1 The home side.

17:26 Speaker 2 Because we—yes, the home side.

17:28 Speaker 1 Wow.

17:28 Speaker 2 What parents go through, what they have to deal with. Because at school, you know, there’s a very structured daily routine. There’s a lot of staff, and the classroom is adapted for him. At home it’s different. Suddenly it’s just his mother, and she has other children at home who need her, and the house isn’t adapted for him. For example, he always wants to get into my cupboards and touch my things. They don’t have that in the classroom.

17:53 Speaker 1 Not just touch.

17:53 Speaker 2 Um, right.

17:54 Speaker 1 Mainly... Wow, wow, it’s wild.

17:57 Speaker 2 Yeah.

17:57 Speaker 1 The things you show. Sometimes I think, oh my goodness, did he spill a bottle of syrup on your floor or something?

18:02 Speaker 2 Yes, raspberry syrup—four liters of it. And it was right before Rosh Hashanah.

18:05 Speaker 1 Oh my goodness.

18:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. I’d just washed the floors. I had to wash them over and over because the stickiness wouldn’t come off.

18:12 Speaker 1 Really? I think replacing the floor tiles would’ve been easier.

18:15 Speaker 2 Yeah. And... he needs full supervision, let’s put it that way. And the moment I... You know, at the end of the day, I’m one person.

18:24 Speaker 1 Right, exactly.

18:24 Speaker 2 The moment you stop paying attention for even a second—and it can be for the most ordinary thing, like going to the bathroom—that’s when a real mess can happen. Sometimes I also let myself ease up a little. Just this past Shabbos, I went to rest in the afternoon and dozed off a bit, with one eye on him and one eye not, you know? Because at the end of the day, you’re human. I can’t watch him one hundred percent of the time. It’s really hard.

18:52 Speaker 1 It’s wild.

18:53 Speaker 2 And I paid for it. He spilled milk and cornflakes, and the twins came to me and said, “Mommy, Ariel did this—he spilled milk and cornflakes.” They stopped him right away, but he does everything really, really fast. He’s a real pro.

19:08 Speaker 1 At what he does.

19:09 Speaker 2 Yeah.

19:10 Speaker 1 How do they see him, really?

19:11 Speaker 2 They shout at him. They say, “Ariel, no, you’re not allowed,” and all that. But you know, he’s older than they are. His ability to understand—

19:17 Speaker 1 They were basically born into this.

19:18 Speaker 2 Yes. They really were born into it. They’re aware of him. They say, “Ariel is a special child.” They really...

19:27 Speaker 1 Did you ever have to stop and explain it to them, or was it already so clear?

19:30 Speaker 2 No, it was just so obvious to them. Yeah.

19:33 Speaker 1 And what about Sapir?

19:34 Speaker 2 Sapir... At first she would always say—I remember different situations, like at the playground or when friends came over to her house—she would always say, “That’s my little brother.” He’s two years younger than she is, but he kept getting older, and he was still her little brother doing strange things—

19:55 Speaker 1 Things a two-year-old would do.

19:56 Speaker 2 And bothering her, yes. She kept saying that, until at some point she started saying, “That’s my special brother.” She just says it outright. Today she doesn’t hide it. She tells all her friends and anyone who comes over, “Yes, that’s my brother. He’s a child with special needs.”

20:13 Speaker 1 I really think awareness helps so much. Think about girls who watch your statuses and then discover, say, that a child in their class has a sibling who...

20:25 Speaker 2 Right?

20:26 Speaker 1 They don’t know what it means.

20:27 Speaker 2 The responses I get are incredible. Yes, I get so many incredible responses, so many stories from women telling me, “Because of you, I did this or that.” Yes.

20:36 Speaker 1 And changing it from something people might even use as an insult—the word “autistic,” I’d say—

20:42 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

20:42 Speaker 1 Into something that simply exists. I’m thinking of Sapir telling her friend, “Yes, my brother is a special child.” What a relief that must be. She doesn’t suddenly have to carry the whole burden of explaining his behavior and everything.

20:57 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Today I do have that.

20:58 Speaker 1 She gets that acceptance from her friends.

21:01 Speaker 2 In her class, there are—

21:02 Speaker 1 What grade is she in now?

21:03 Speaker 2 Fifth grade. In her class, there are—

21:06 Speaker 1 Wait a second. My daughter was also in that class. Is she in fifth or sixth?

21:09 Speaker 2 Fifth.

21:10 Speaker 1 Okay.

21:10 Speaker 2 Yes, fifth.

21:11 Speaker 1 What a coincidence.

21:12 Speaker 2 Oh, your daughter’s in fifth grade too?

21:13 Speaker 1 She was in first grade there. Yeah.

21:14 Speaker 2 Oh, nice.

21:16 Speaker 1 So it’s a sweet class. She got a good class.

21:18 Speaker 2 She did. There are girls there who are familiar with it, whether they have an uncle like that or a brother like that. And I remember that in one of the grades, I think second or third, the teacher even had a discussion about it.

21:32 Speaker 1 Wow.

21:32 Speaker 2 Yes, she really explained it to them. And baruch Hashem, Sapir’s class really understands and accepts it. So that’s... You know, something I worried about was how the siblings would react to this, and how they would cope socially. Sometimes children might laugh at them for having a brother like that, or call them names. You know, children can be cruel. They say whatever comes to mind; they have no filters. But baruch Hashem, Sapir’s friends in her class are aware of it.

22:12 Speaker 1 Yeah.

22:13 Speaker 2 But we do encounter things. We face challenges at home and when we go out into public spaces. Yes, we often run into all kinds of...

22:23 Speaker 1 When he behaves in a way people find strange and they make a comment, do you tell them he has autism, or...?

22:29 Speaker 2 Yes. And then they just... they go quiet.

22:33 Speaker 1 “Oh, sorry.”

22:34 Speaker 2 Because he looks like any other child, but he does all sorts of unusual things.

22:39 Speaker 1 I’m surprised people still aren’t aware. I don’t know, it just...

22:43 Speaker 2 They don’t understand.

22:44 Speaker 1 He’s so little.

22:46 Speaker 2 Look, most people are... But I’ve had plenty of situations where people tell me he isn’t well brought up, or ask why he’s lying on the floor, things like that. It still happens. And that’s why I feel this is my path. By sharing, I can raise public awareness and share what life is like for us. And I can give strength to other families and parents dealing with something like this.

23:17 Speaker 1 It’s beautiful how, by sharing, you give strength on the one hand and receive strength on the other.

23:21 Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely.

23:22 Speaker 1 I hope you receive strength.

23:24 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, absolutely.

23:25 Speaker 1 I don’t know, tell me—is it a way to get things off your chest? “Listen, he spilled syrup all over my floor.” There’s something about that...

23:29 Speaker 2 I get so, so many responses that...

23:31 Speaker 1 A hug.

23:32 Speaker 2 Yes, a hug. They warm your heart and tell you, “You’re amazing.” It really does give you strength.

23:38 Speaker 1 Yes, I’m curious. Have you heard from women who had their children diagnosed because they...?

23:43 Speaker 2 Yes, definitely. So many women have asked me questions because of what I’ve shared—things like, “How did you notice? What were the signs?” And then suddenly they realize their own child might have it too. A lightbulb goes on. Several women have written to tell me they went and had their children assessed, and they’re terribly worried. A lot of women also write to me after a diagnosis: “They diagnosed my child, and now I need help. What do I do?” I really try to help and guide them. I remember that at the beginning, I didn’t know what kind of program to put him in, what support he was entitled to—all sorts of things you just don’t know. Suddenly it’s a whole new world. The people who guided me were the social workers, both at the health clinic’s child development center and at his kindergarten. I remember going to various things then, too. There was Nivcharti[?]. Do you know it, in Kiryat Malachi? It’s still around.

24:44 Speaker 3 Nivcharti[?]. What is that, an organization?

24:46 Speaker 2 It’s an organization for mothers of children with special needs. Every so often they hold gatherings that give you strength to keep going.

24:55 Speaker 3 That’s beautiful.

24:56 Speaker 2 Yes, it really is. I remember going and suddenly seeing that I wasn’t alone. There were other mothers dealing with all kinds of things, and each one told her story and shared where she was at. I remember it gave me so much strength, just realizing that you’re not alone. So, yes.

25:15 Speaker 3 Does he sleep in his own room?

25:17 Speaker 2 No, he sleeps with the twins, but most of the time—ninety percent of the time—he wakes up in the middle of the night and just comes over to us.

25:24 Speaker 3 Right. I’m trying to think about the most basic things, like getting a night’s sleep.

25:28 Speaker 2 Right, yes. Our home—

25:31 Speaker 3 Your marriage. Everything.

25:32 Speaker 2 It’s a three-room home: a room for Sapir, our room, and a room for the twins and him. We really want to move now and make the home more suited to his needs, including the fact that he needs his own room. I’d also like him to have his own bathroom with a toilet and shower, because a lot of the time he goes in there and smears things around and gets into everything.

25:55 Speaker 3 And everyone gets to enjoy that.

25:56 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. So we want to adapt the home. And the house itself—for example, the kitchen—I’d be very happy to have a kitchen that closes off with a door.

26:07 Speaker 3 Oh, right.

26:07 Speaker 2 So he wouldn’t have access to it. Our kitchen is open to the living room as soon as you come in, and he has a field day there. In one second when you’re not looking, he can—

26:16 Speaker 3 You could lock every cabinet, but that’s not really the point.

26:20 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. What I want is to be able to close off the kitchen, for it to be a separate room.

26:25 Speaker 3 Wow, I don’t think they build many like that today.

26:28 Speaker 2 You mostly see that in older houses.

26:29 Speaker 3 Yes, today they build the kitchen connected to the—

26:31 Speaker 2 Right, so we’d have to renovate or do something like that. Yes. That’s the direction we’re thinking about.

26:38 Speaker 3 Wow, with Hashem’s help.

26:40 Speaker 2 It would make our way of life easier—make our day-to-day life easier.

26:46 Speaker 3 Definitely. Wow, that’s incredible.

26:48 Speaker 2 Yes.

26:49 Speaker 3 What a thing. Tell me, I was thinking of getting into the marriage side of things too, but maybe just a few words about it.

26:57 Speaker 2 Yes. I’ll say that what I’m really fortunate about in this whole story is that my husband and I are in it together. I know lots of couples where one partner is in denial or isn’t on board. But we were on the same page. We understood: okay, this is our child. Now we need to figure out how to deal with it, how to live alongside it, and how to run our home with autism rather than let autism run us, as they say. And not to put our lives on hold—just to keep living. We try. I’m not going to tell you there isn’t a price, that we don’t pay a price for it. But we do still go on trips as a whole family and keep making memories together. Of course, a lot of the time we have to plan around his needs. We prefer places that are less crowded, less enclosed, less noisy. But—

27:54 Speaker 3 Do you feel you worry less about what other people think when you go out? Because in the end, going out often means dealing not only with the burden itself, but with lots of comments from people, or...

28:05 Speaker 2 Right, right.

28:06 Speaker 3 I don’t know, he might cut in line. There are plenty of things he might do...

28:10 Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely. Honestly, over time, over the years, I’ve changed. I used to be hurt or offended by comments from people around me. Today I’ve developed a kind of immunity, and I just don’t pay attention. It goes right past me. I’ve gotten used to it. And we try to go out. We’re proud of him. I don’t hide it. He’s my child, he has autism, and that’s it. This is our family, and we live with it.

28:39 Speaker 3 If someone doesn’t like it, have a nice day.

28:41 Speaker 2 Exactly. Yes, we encounter it in a lot of places, but we just ignore it.

28:47 Speaker 3 By the way, how do you go out? Do you have a babysitter who can stay with Ariel, someone who knows him, or...?

28:52 Speaker 2 No, we don’t. I mean, we have a babysitter who comes to the house when we go out on our own. But when we go out as a family, we don’t bring a personal aide. We usually split up: my husband stays more with Ariel, because Ariel can suddenly run off and things like that, and I’m with the other children, the twins and Sapir. I remember we were at a hotel not long ago. It felt like the whole family was at the hotel, but we weren’t really together. For example, whenever we went into the dining room, it was very, very hard for him. A dining room is an enclosed place with lots and lots of people. My husband constantly had to take him outside to an open space, and I had to... So there I was at the hotel—

29:32 Speaker 3 With the twins.

29:33 Speaker 2 At breakfast on my own, just me, the twins and Sapir. And my husband was off with Ariel. We did have moments together, but they were moments we had to grab here and there, so to speak. Still, I’ve come to terms with it. Once you accept it and understand it, you don’t get stuck on it. You tell yourself, okay, enjoy what you have.

29:56 Speaker 3 Right. You don’t build up expectations and then feel disappointed.

29:58 Speaker 2 Exactly. I don’t expect something else, and I don’t get upset, because I know from the start that this is what our trip will look like. And we do have experiences together; it is fun. We’re still doing it. As for our marriage, as I started to say, my husband is very much with me in this. He supports me, I support him, and we’re there for each other through it all, whatever’s needed. I remember we did have a bit of a crisis after the twins were born. Suddenly it was so intense—two little babies, Ariel, everything all at once. But we got through that crisis. We also went for couples therapy for a while, a series of sessions, and things are good between us today. Of course there are very difficult days and all that.

30:48 Speaker 3 Like every couple.

30:48 Speaker 2 Like every couple, yes. But we know how to work through those things. We also make a real effort to get a babysitter so we can have time alone, go out together and talk. Because at home, we can’t really manage to do that.

31:07 Speaker 3 I’m thinking about you, too. If you don’t look after your own sanity, you could lose it, couldn’t you? Because...

31:12 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, I have days like that. It really comes in phases. During the war, for example, I found it very, very hard. He had no school. Everyone else had already gone back, but special education hadn’t.

31:23 Speaker 3 Wow, but it’s usually the other way around.

31:25 Speaker 2 Right, but during the war, it was because they weren’t aware of the sirens or the need to go to a protected space. During COVID, for example, his school reopened before everyone else’s, because that was COVID. But here, during the war, if there’s a siren, the teacher has to take all the children to a protected space, and with these children it’s really one-on-one.

31:43 Speaker 3 Wow. So they couldn’t do it.

31:44 Speaker 2 So I couldn’t really turn to anyone. The truth is, there are very few children in his class—five children, four or five. Yes, five. Another child joined, but they still went back to their program much later than everyone else. And it was really, really hard for me. Because any change for him also changes his behavior. I remember feeling... I felt completely suffocated. I was having a very, very hard time.

32:13 Speaker 3 And you didn’t know when it would end.

32:15 Speaker 2 I didn’t know when it would end. Everything was up in the air, and his behavior had changed too, and it was awful. In general, I think everyone in the country was pretty much...

32:25 Speaker 3 Going crazy.

32:26 Speaker 2 Yes, going crazy. Everyone was having a hard time, and it was a difficult period. I had this added on top of it, and then everyone else went back and he stayed home. I really felt... I remember looking for places that would even take him. Not an educational program—just somewhere that would actually take him and let me breathe for a moment. There were a few really, really sweet volunteers who agreed. They told me, “What? For us, it’s just a few hours. Okay, it’s challenging, but we can get through it.” A few challenging hours of looking after him, spending time with him, things like that.

32:55 Speaker 3 For you, it was a lifeline.

32:56 Speaker 2 For me, it was. I remember thinking, wow, it gave me room to breathe and a little space to collect myself. Yes. So there were a few lovely volunteers who really did take him in the mornings until noon. Some of them had experience with special education and with children like him. I remember how much I appreciated it, and it really, really helped me.

33:16 Speaker 3 Wow. Tell me, in the hard moments, is there something specific that keeps you going? Something you think about that helps you cope? Because obviously, sometimes we get bogged down—we’re human.

33:30 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

33:30 Speaker 3 And sometimes there’s no way around it.

33:32 Speaker 2 For me, when I have really, really hard, intense days, what I usually do first is call my husband in to help. I tell him, “This is...” Or, if he can’t, I often get help from outside. I’ll bring in a babysitter to be with him, for example, or get help with housework and things like that. And I let myself be in that difficult moment for a bit, but I pull myself together pretty quickly—usually by the next day. I tell myself, this is my shlichus. I love him very, very much, I have to say. For all the challenges and difficulties with him—and he really is very intense—I love him so, so much, and I feel very connected to him.

34:20 Speaker 3 There’s something captivating about him too, I can tell you.

34:22 Speaker 2 He’s such a smiley, sweet child. He doesn’t speak or communicate, but you can see it in his eyes; you can feel it. I just feel him. He loves me very, very much too, and he’s connected to me. I can just feel it. We don’t talk day to day. I have real difficulty communicating with him even about basic things like eating and drinking—what do you need right here, right now? But we never have conversations. I love him very, very much, so that’s part of it. I also have so much compassion for him, so the difficult moments pass very quickly. I mean, I’ll have a hard moment. I remember that sometimes when I’m with him—mainly on Shabbos, because he does have a program. He leaves at seven or seven-thirty in the morning and comes home at five in the evening, so I still have space during the day. Really, from the moment...

35:12 Speaker 3 You recover.

35:12 Speaker 2 Yes, I recover. He’s at his program for many, many hours. So really, from the moment he comes home, that’s when it’s hard, because you have to give him a hundred percent of your attention. But I feel the difficulty day to day as well. I feel it in our regular routine, but I’ve gotten used to it, as they say. It’s my everyday life. I’m used to it. It doesn’t feel like something out of the ordinary anymore. Where it really hits me is on Shabbos, and especially on Yom Tov and during vacations, because it’s intense, day after day after day. During Sukkos, for example, it’s day after day after day with him, and you don’t have the chance...

35:49 Speaker 3 That little window of time to yourself.

35:51 Speaker 2 In his everyday routine, when he’s at his program, I have the whole morning each day to breathe for a moment and collect myself. But during vacations, that’s when it hits me. Yom Tov was very hard for me. But because I have compassion for him, I pull myself together very quickly, by the next day. I really love him, and I feel that I’m also a shliach, and that he’s a very, very lofty soul. I feel that I was truly chosen, and that I really am capable of being his mother. He didn’t come to me for no reason. So the difficulty really does pass fairly quickly. My difficulty might be... I’ll tell you what: when it comes to thinking about the future, I’ve come to terms with it. I mean, knowing that he probably won’t get married—unless some miracle happens, and I always believe in miracles. Faith is something that really, really sustains me through this. But I’m realistic, and the fact is that, as things stand today, he probably won’t get married, probably won’t work, and will probably need to stay with us at home. Unless... People are always asking me, “Will you move him out of the house? Send him somewhere?” As of today, my answer is no, but I can’t...

36:58 Speaker 4 You don’t know.

36:59 Speaker 2 Right, I can’t know. No. Usually they have a program until age twenty-one, and after twenty-one, some of them—most of them, really—move into some kind of...

37:07 Speaker 4 Shared living arrangement.

37:09 Speaker 2 Yes, something like that. So I don’t know. As of today, both my husband and I say the answer is no, and we want him to stay with us. But I can’t know what the future will bring or what we’ll encounter along the way.

37:20 Speaker 4 Or what things will be like for him.

37:20 Speaker 2 We also have to think about our other children. But that’s where I am with it. I’ve come to terms with it. Let’s put it this way: I’ve come to terms with it, and I’m at peace with it. I’m in a calm place about it. If you’re asking whether I have difficult moments, it’s more the everyday stuff. Sometimes you get into bed and the sheets are covered in poop, and he’s spilled raspberry drink, and he’s taken chips and eaten them, and there are chips all over the house. Things like that. All day you’re cleaning and tidying and picking things up, and then he can come along and smear something everywhere. That’s everyday life. You can spend three hours cleaning and tidying, and ten minutes later it’s all undone.

38:04 Speaker 4 People say, “I wish I had a little elf to tidy the house.” Here it’s the opposite—he comes along and messes up everything you’ve...

38:10 Speaker 2 Exactly. A little elf who... It can happen in seconds.

38:13 Speaker 4 There’s no way to predict...

38:15 Speaker 2 There’s no way to predict it. He might relieve himself on the floor, smear it on the walls, spill something...

38:21 Speaker 4 Oh, wow.

38:22 Speaker 2 He gets into things. He ruins so many of my things. On Shabbos he threw my Apple Watch out the window, and luckily a neighbor saw it and asked us if it was... The neighbors already know. They know.

38:32 Speaker 4 They’re used to...

38:33 Speaker 2 He’s thrown my phone out the window, and he throws my clothes out the window.

38:36 Speaker 4 So everyone around you is involved, really. Your extended family, of course.

38:39 Speaker 2 The extended family too. The neighbors already know him. Yes. At first it was... But now the neighbors know him and talk to him, and he smiles at them and they smile back.

38:52 Speaker 4 I’m curious whether you see something this has given them—the wider circle. Your parents, for example, your siblings. Has it given them something in life?

39:04 Speaker 2 Yes. At first, everyone was in complete denial. Remember, he was diagnosed at age three. Now that he’s older, you can tell right away.

39:12 Speaker 4 Because the gap is...

39:13 Speaker 2 Yes, because the gap is enormous. You see an eight-year-old child who’s physically big, but doesn’t speak or communicate and seems disconnected, and you notice it immediately. But when he was three, the gap was smaller, because there are still three-year-olds who don’t speak.

39:27 Speaker 4 Right.

39:28 Speaker 2 He isn’t the only child like that at that age. And it was still very, very hard for me to see it. I remember everyone close to us being in such denial. Suddenly it was, “It’s a developmental delay. He’ll grow up, it’ll work itself out, you’ll see.” And little by little you’re telling them, “Okay, this is how he is,” while you’re also living with it day to day.

39:47 Speaker 4 And you have to convince them, even though it isn’t easy for you either.

39:49 Speaker 2 A real campaign to convince them. I remember.

39:51 Speaker 4 Please believe me.

39:53 Speaker 2 My father and mother, I mean, yes. And then, little by little, they began to realize: he was getting older, but in a way he was staying in the same place. He makes tremendous progress. He does progress relative to where he was, but very, very slowly. There was always that gap. Um, yes, but little by little they began to see it. Yes, I think it really affected them. Suddenly my family—we had no experience with anything like this. We didn’t know anyone. There’s no other child like him in our family. No one had ever seen it so closely. Suddenly they were seeing it up close. So yes, I think it changed something in them. They all love him very, very much, accept him, and are very close to him.

40:37 Speaker 5 That’s so moving. Because...

40:38 Speaker 2 He loves them too. Yes.

40:39 Speaker 5 So in the end, it isn’t only your child who’s affected...

40:42 Speaker 2 Yes.

40:43 Speaker 5 He also...

40:44 Speaker 2 Actually, these days Ariel belongs to everyone. You have no idea. He’s become a bit of a celebrity, and everyone has fallen in love with him through the screen. And people send me messages about him. Just yesterday he was on a trip to Kfar Chabad, and someone said to me, “Wow, it was so sweet to see him in person. I saw him!” All sorts of people suddenly run into him in different places. Yes.

41:01 Speaker 5 How sweet.

41:01 Speaker 2 So people fall in love with him through the screen. He doesn’t speak.

41:04 Speaker 5 And he doesn’t even know.

41:06 Speaker 2 Yes.

41:06 Speaker 5 Does he realize you’re filming him, or not?

41:08 Speaker 2 Um, no. He doesn’t. He’s less aware of that. But the thing is, in his day-to-day life he seems less aware, and then through typing, suddenly a different Ariel comes out.

41:16 Speaker 5 Oh, he can type already?

41:17 Speaker 2 He types. Yes. The thing is, he doesn’t know how to write, and nobody ever really taught him the letters. And he types. Yes. Suddenly he writes to me, “I love Mom. I love Dad.” It’s so moving to see him suddenly write something he’s never said to you.

41:35 Speaker 5 How can that be, really?

41:37 Speaker 2 It’s something, isn’t it? Yes. I don’t know. They have this sort of...

41:39 Speaker 5 Specifically through typing, not handwriting.

41:41 Speaker 2 Through typing. Yes. If you saw Ariel, you’d see a child who seems very disconnected, a child who doesn’t seem to be with you. A child who... But he has a whole inner world that we, the people around him, know nothing about, because he can’t communicate it outwardly. But he really does have a whole, rich inner world of his own. I even had a conversation about it with his speech therapist. She told me, “I feel that his inner world is very, very rich, and he has a lot to say, but he can’t really say it.” And that’s something that’s very, very hard for me: knowing you have a child who’s trapped inside himself and can’t express it. In day-to-day life, you don’t really know what he’s going through, what he’s feeling, whether he’s happy or sad or something’s bothering him. You really don’t. But sometimes I can sense it. There was a terribly sad incident: a friend of his from class died after choking. And at first they didn’t tell the other children, his classmates. They told them Eli wasn’t there, but didn’t explain exactly what had happened. They were trying to... At first he hadn’t passed away. He was sedated and on a ventilator. So they said he was sick and wasn’t feeling well. Then I remember that he passed away, and afterward they had to tell them, because Eli wasn’t going to come back to class. There are only four children in the class. Think about it—each child means so much to them. This isn’t a class of thirty children. So the school told them using a social story, slowly and gradually. And I...

43:23 Speaker 2 knew they’d told them. Yes, they update me every day about what he did and what they worked on with him. They write it in a notebook, because I can’t otherwise know how his day went. He doesn’t tell me the way another child might: “Mom, I played with this friend, we had a party, the English teacher came.” I don’t have that with him. I have no idea what happens or what he goes through, but I do get updates from his school about his day. That day he came home very, very sad and crying. He curled up under his blanket and covered himself, and it seemed very strange to me. I couldn’t understand what was wrong. So right away I said, okay, I’ll check the notebook and see what happened today. Maybe something happened that would explain his behavior. I opened the notebook and read that they’d told them about Eli. Then I realized his behavior was probably a reaction to that. So to me, it showed that he understands everything, knows everything, and feels everything, but he can’t speak. I’ve seen it in several situations. That’s the barrier. What I just described was a very, very extreme case.

44:27 Speaker 5 Yes.

44:28 Speaker 2 But I sense it in other situations too, in everyday life—I can see that he feels things. For example, I was away from home for two days. I’d gone on a little vacation with a friend, and when I came back, he was so happy and excited to see me, laughing and enjoying himself. You can feel it. A lot of the time, my communication with him is through emotion—I can sense what he’s feeling. He doesn’t express it, but I can tell that he understands everything. He knows everything, he sees everything, but he can’t put it into words.

44:57 Speaker 5 And he doesn’t type every day.

44:58 Speaker 2 No, he doesn’t type every day. He doesn’t really cooperate with it, either. I have to say, we did try it with him a few times, but he resisted it. He became very upset. It wasn’t good for him. He was really crying, with tears running down his face. So we typed and asked him, “Ariel, why are you crying?” He said, “It’s very, very hard for me to type, because I’m speaking from my soul.”

45:22 Speaker 5 Wow.

45:22 Speaker 2 So we stopped.

45:24 Speaker 5 That really is an enormous step for someone who doesn’t say a word.

45:26 Speaker 2 An eight-year-old who hasn’t said a word and has never shared his feelings.

45:30 Speaker 5 Oh my goodness.

45:30 Speaker 2 He’s never shared his feelings or said anything. And then suddenly, in one day, people expect him to type and tell them everything, to suddenly talk to me. That’s very, very hard for him too.

45:40 Speaker 5 Yes.

45:40 Speaker 2 So we let it go. We’d done about three or four sessions with him, and, you know, it was truly so moving.

45:48 Speaker 5 Incredible. Listen.

45:50 Speaker 2 And when he wrote that he didn’t want to, we said, okay, we’re not going to make him do something he doesn’t want to do. We’ll give him time. He was about six, six and a half then.

46:01 Speaker 5 Wow.

46:01 Speaker 2 Yes, so we said, okay, we’ll give him time. I even have pictures of it. I’ll show you later. And we’ll try to come back to it in, say, another year, when he might be more mature and more ready for it.

46:16 Speaker 5 Yes.

46:16 Speaker 2 So we left it alone. And now he has it at school too. As part of his school program, he’s started typing a little with his teacher. He has a session once a week.

46:26 Speaker 5 Wow.

46:26 Speaker 2 And he writes things there. She shares them with us every time: “You won’t believe what Ariel wrote.” Sometimes she asks me, “Who’s this person? And who’s this?” Suddenly he’s writing all sorts of people’s names for her.

46:37 Speaker 5 Oh my goodness.

46:38 Speaker 2 Yes, unbelievable things. I’m amazed all over again every time. Yes.

46:41 Speaker 5 It’s all there inside him. It’s just...

46:43 Speaker 2 Yes.

46:43 Speaker 5 Finding a way to bring it out.

46:45 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

46:45 Speaker 5 They do say these children have lofty souls.

46:47 Speaker 2 Yes, that’s what they say.

46:48 Speaker 5 We really don’t know what they’re going through, where their minds wander.

46:52 Speaker 2 Right.

46:53 Speaker 5 Somewhere up above.

46:54 Speaker 2 Yes. You know, a lot of autistic children use typing to express themselves. I know many of them. He isn’t the only one who writes these astonishing things, and you think, “How did that come from him? It doesn’t make sense—he doesn’t speak. How can he write that?”

47:09 Speaker 5 It feels like two different people.

47:10 Speaker 2 It really does.

47:11 Speaker 5 Wow.

47:12 Speaker 2 Yes, it’s incredible.

47:14 Speaker 5 Wow, Shelly. Any final thought? A message or something you’d like to share with... I think... I was about to say mothers who don’t have children with special needs, but really everyone, because in the end...

47:29 Speaker 2 What I’m saying is, be proud of your children. Try to give them all the support they need. I hear from a lot of mothers. You said this isn’t just for mothers of children with special needs, but because this is my experience, I hear from many who hide it—who have children like this and don’t talk about it or even share it with the people closest to them. One woman told me she had hidden it from her own mother because she was afraid of what her mother would say or think. Maybe she’d see it as some kind of failure.

48:05 Speaker 5 [unclear], but oh my goodness.

48:06 Speaker 2 On some level, you ask yourself, “What, I have a child like this? How does that make sense? I gave birth to a child who supposedly isn’t... you know.” I hear this from so many people, and I tell them: Be proud of your children. Understand that this is a shlichus. On the contrary, you were privileged to have this child.

48:22 Speaker 5 Absolutely.

48:22 Speaker 2 And truly, not everyone has that privilege. If you have a child with special needs—whether they’re on the spectrum or have Down syndrome or something else—everyone has their own challenges. You truly were privileged that this child came to you. You were chosen. People say that he chose us and we chose him, and that isn’t just a saying. It’s really true.

48:40 Speaker 5 Wow. That’s true.

48:41 Speaker 2 I feel like a shlucha, and it really is a privilege. It’s a privilege to have him, and I’ve also been privileged to pass that on. I’ve been able to give a lot of strength to other mothers. That’s really what I wanted to say.

48:58 Speaker 5 Amazing. You said earlier—and you said it during our conversation too—that there was this moment when it sank in: This is your child, you’re his mother, and Hakadosh Boruch Hu gave him to you because He believes in you.

49:09 Speaker 2 Right.

49:09 Speaker 5 I really think that even if you don’t...

49:10 Speaker 2 No, I mean, this is my reality. So what am I going to do now, sit around feeling like a victim? Sit and cry? I did have that period of coming to terms with it...

49:19 Speaker 5 Which you need to go through.

49:20 Speaker 2 Right. Yes, a few months, with so many thoughts. I said this earlier in our conversation too. But at a certain point I understood: Okay, this is my child, and now I need to figure out how to live with this.

49:32 Speaker 5 Yes.

49:33 Speaker 2 And I think that’s true of every challenge in life.

49:35 Speaker 5 That’s exactly what I wanted to say.

49:36 Speaker 2 It’s not just autism. In the end, every one of us has something.

49:40 Speaker 5 Even just a child with a particular sensitivity.

49:43 Speaker 2 Not only with children. It’s not only about children.

49:45 Speaker 5 Our own stories.

49:46 Speaker 2 Everyone has her own challenge. Some people are dealing with a health issue, some with earning a living. Some don’t have children, and some haven’t gotten married. Everyone has her own burdens to carry. And with children too—sometimes it’s simply emotional therapy. Some have a daughter who...

50:07 Speaker 5 There’s no shortage.

50:07 Speaker 2 No shortage, as they say. I’m saying you simply have to learn to live alongside it and come to terms with it, and not dwell on it.

50:18 Speaker 5 Yes. I think just knowing that Hakadosh Boruch Hu chose me and gave this to me...

50:22 Speaker 2 People say—and they don’t say it for nothing—that Hakadosh Boruch Hu won’t give a person a challenge He knows they can’t handle. That’s true. Each person is given what she’s capable of dealing with. Sometimes I see women dealing with different things, and from the outside you might say, “That’s something small. You’re dealing with something much bigger.” But that isn’t true, because ultimately, each person faces her own challenge in her own way.

50:47 Speaker 5 According to the strength she has.

50:48 Speaker 2 According to the strength she has. Right? So yes, it’s about living alongside it, coming to terms with it, accepting it.

50:56 Speaker 5 Beautiful. Wow. May we truly merit that. I hope every woman gets to see the strength she has and discover it. You know how easy it is to see the difficulties, the problems, the challenges—and, bli ayin hara, there are plenty.

51:09 Speaker 2 Yes.

51:10 Speaker 5 But may we merit to see our strengths.

51:11 Speaker 2 And to see the good in it, too. I can say that, in the end, there are many positive things that have come with it.

51:19 Speaker 5 It’s part of you.

51:20 Speaker 2 Yes, that too. I suddenly discovered so many things about myself that I didn’t know were there. I see positive things in this too. I learned what it means to have a child with special needs, and I developed a sensitivity to others that I hadn’t had before.

51:39 Speaker 5 It brings that out of you.

51:41 Speaker 2 It brings so much out of me. Yes.

51:43 Speaker 5 Beautiful. Wow. Shelly Chaimov, thank you. Thank you so much for coming.

51:47 Speaker 2 Thank you. I really enjoyed it.

51:49 Speaker 5 Truly. Thank you.