Episode 53: Cooking faith with love | With chef Moran Pinto

00:00 Speaker 1 About cooking for the family, for Shabbos, for holidays and for guests. About everyday life and vacation, routines and trips. All the tips and behind-the-scenes details from a brilliant, practical chef. And of course, where Hakadosh Boruch Hu fits into all of this. How cooking is an inseparable part of serving Hashem, of our faith and of our shlichus here in the world. All this in a fun, practical conversation with chef Moran Pinto. Did you enjoy it? Did it strengthen you? Send the episode to friends and family members you love and want to strengthen. For Shlichus as a Way of Life content on my status, digital products that will help you bring Chassidus into your life and live your purpose, the Health as a Way of Life program, and J kits products—all of it, everything, is in my catalog at WhatsApp number 050-850-5770. The intro, and then we’ll get started. How do we turn our lives into lives of shlichus, full of meaning? I’m Chani Moskowitz. I was born in Kharkov, Ukraine, and now continue my shlichus in Karmei Gat, Israel. On this podcast, we’ll meet different women who bring their shlichus to a variety of fields and, through it, help each of us find and clarify our own shlichus in the world. Because living the lives we were created for is the best there is. Shlichus as a Way of Life. We’re starting right now. Welcome to another episode of the Shlichus as a Way of Life podcast. Today we’re using an interesting format, a little different technically. Sorry, I usually have headphones on too.

01:32 Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Good.

01:33 Speaker 1 So this way you can hear both yourself and me.

01:36 Speaker 2 Yes.

01:36 Speaker 1 So, welcome, Moran Pinto.

01:40 Speaker 2 Thank you very much.

01:41 Speaker 1 How are you?

01:41 Speaker 2 Boruch Hashem.

01:42 Speaker 1 I brought you here at the height of summer.

01:44 Speaker 2 Right in the middle of vacation.

01:45 Speaker 1 South, away from Jerusalem’s weather. Were you ready to leave?

01:49 Speaker 2 No, no, of course.

01:50 Speaker 1 Anyway, the reason I reached out to you—and I’ve already told you all this—is that I like to bring on interesting professionals. But interesting isn’t enough. Professionals whose soul comes through in their work. I mean, with you, it’s impossible to miss that behind everything you do, there’s so much, so much soul and a sense of shlichus. Oh, thank you. That’s what we want to bring to our podcast. So first, introduce yourself beyond—I’m sure lots and lots of women, maybe even most of them, know you, but tell us something beyond that. And I’m also interested in how you got into all of this. Because cooking is something that touches all of us. Come on, every mother eventually has to get up in the morning and cook for her children.

02:36 Speaker 2 Of course.

02:37 Speaker 1 What was the moment when you said, “I’ve got this. I want to turn this into more than just being a mother who has to cook”—into a profession, really?

02:44 Speaker 2 Yes. Well, as for the part beyond that: when we got married, we would host people. We lived near my husband’s yeshiva, so we’d have different friends over, and I’d cook for Shabbos. We really loved having people in our home. I’d prepare Shabbos meals, make different things, try things out, taste something delicious here and there. But I always felt there was something more in me. When I came to Jerusalem, I was a girl who’d grown up in the south, and we never ate out. You come to Jerusalem and there are so many places to choose from. I started tasting things and suddenly thought, wow.

03:18 Speaker 1 It opened your mind.

03:19 Speaker 2 Yes. I mean, the food at home was delicious and lovely, but suddenly there was more, you know? All kinds of flavors, food from different places around the world that I hadn’t known. I found it really interesting and started getting curious. Suddenly you notice other flavors. You go to a friend’s house, and they’re English and eat this way, and they eat—and you know, to her it’s just ordinary home life. It seemed completely normal to her, but still—

03:43 Speaker 1 What kind of food did you eat at home?

03:45 Speaker 2 Very simple food. Real, tasty, cooked food, but simple. Yes.

03:50 Speaker 1 Meatballs.

03:51 Speaker 2 Exactly. Someone once said to me, “Oh, I want to make stews.” I told her, “Actually, I’m looking to make the other things, because I grew up with stews.” They seem so basic to me.

03:57 Speaker 1 That’s also a bit of the grass being greener on the other side, because all the Ashkenazim are practically drooling over those pots of food—

04:03 Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely. It’s just what you’re used to at home. It’s your starting point. I don’t know, for example, I had a very good friend whose house I used to visit. They’d be hungry, and there was never a pot of hot food there. That seemed crazy to me, unreal. At most there’d be something from some very commercial brand, you know, a soup where you add a few cups of hot water and heat it on the stove.

04:33 Speaker 1 Oh dear.

04:34 Speaker 2 And suddenly I couldn’t make sense of it. I remember their mother would buy lots of cereal, lots of milk for the fridge, a few vegetables. That was the house; that was the food.

04:44 Speaker 1 Wow.

04:45 Speaker 2 You know, if you come one day, you say, “Okay, she didn’t have time.” But then another day, and you think, wow. I realized there are children who don’t eat hot meals. So first of all, food is memories and childhood. I say this to every mother: even if you’re not the greatest cook, your children will love your food just as it is. Make good, tasty food for your children, for your home, for the smells, for the memories. Because there’s no getting around it. The things we remember most are from kindergarten, from school. Later we really get on with our lives, but those things stay etched in us.

05:12 Speaker 1 Right.

05:13 Speaker 2 …

05:14 Speaker 1 Like you’re saying, it really is a feeling. I have this memory from when I was in second grade. I came home from school one winter day, and I think my umbrella broke on the way. I got home soaked, and all I remember is the hot soup I ate after changing my clothes.

05:31 Speaker 2 When you came in.

05:32 Speaker 1 You think, what’s the big deal? It was only soup.

05:35 Speaker 2 Only soup.

05:35 Speaker 1 But it isn’t. It really is a kind of—

05:36 Speaker 2 No, no, it really is. Sometimes I’ll walk down certain streets, you know, places with houses, and suddenly smell something and think, “Wow, that reminds me of something I haven’t eaten in a hundred years.” You know? It’s the aromas, the memories, the heart. It opens your heart. So make food. I say this to all mothers: make food. Make food from the heart. Whatever you’re able to make—it doesn’t have to be anything grand at all.

05:59 Speaker 1 Yes, exactly.

06:00 Speaker 2 The simple food, exactly—that simple food from home becomes the good memories in the end. I can tell you that I cook for very prominent, very wealthy people who can afford every food in the world. And in the end, I still make them soup with lokshen and gefilte fish, because that’s their food, their memory, their taste. They’ll try everything, but you know, in the end they need those basics of life too.

06:19 Speaker 1 Wow, so you’ve brought us right to something I’m curious about: what do you actually do day to day? “Chef” is a very broad word. It could mean someone who works in a restaurant, someone who works in a hotel kitchen, or someone who works in catering. But you don’t do those things.

06:34 Speaker 2 No. The truth is, before—

06:35 Speaker 1 You’re not conventional.

06:38 Speaker 2 Right, it’s about constantly creating. The truth is that for me, it started with the basics. Like I was beginning to tell you, we were a young couple and I would cook. We’d invite friends over for Shabbos, married couples from the neighborhood, and the women would say, “Wow, how do you cook such delicious food? We’re the same age. How do you know how to do this?” And I’d tell them, “I don’t know, I just try things. I don’t really know—I hadn’t done it before.” I even remember sitting in the playground with the neighborhood women, and they said, “Maybe you could run a workshop for us.” That’s how it started. “Teach us to cook.” They felt they were all in the same boat. It wasn’t as though one of us was older; we were all young women with children at the playground, wanting to know how to cook tasty food. That’s how it began. I remember it was winter, and I held six morning sessions.

07:26 Speaker 1 No way!

07:26 Speaker 2 And I was learning my way through it myself. I was so young—twenty-one, twenty-two—with two little children.

07:31 Speaker 1 Wow, but listen, as I hear you, I’m thinking about how alert you were to the signs that Hakadosh Boruch Hu was leading you. Because—

07:40 Speaker 2 Yes.

07:41 Speaker 1 You could have said to yourself, “Come on, it’s nothing, it’s just a hobby. I’m not really good enough.” Like you said, compared with what you know today, you didn’t really know anything.

07:47 Speaker 2 Right, and I told them, “I’ll teach you what I know.”

07:50 Speaker 1 Of course, because there’s a need. So I’ll provide an answer and that kind of encouragement.

07:54 Speaker 2 So I told them, “I’ll teach you what I know. I’m not a cooking teacher or anything like that. I’ll teach you what I know.”

08:01 Speaker 1 And for them, that was everything.

08:03 Speaker 2 Yes, it was a lot. I remember someone once called me to ask how to make something. After about six calls, I told her, “Sweetheart, bring me the ingredients and I’ll make it for you. That’s easier.”

08:10 Speaker 1 Wow, that was—

08:11 Speaker 2 That would have been quicker.

08:12 Speaker 1 You’re also one of those people who cooks by eye.

08:14 Speaker 2 Oh, of course.

08:15 Speaker 1 So that makes it really hard. How do you turn that into recipes?

08:17 Speaker 2 Right.

08:18 Speaker 1 You just add salt, and then it’s like, how much salt should you put in?

08:20 Speaker 2 Exactly.

08:20 Speaker 1 It’s just, it’s—

08:21 Speaker 2 Right. So when I started making food videos or posting food on Kikar HaShabbat, I remember we were still shooting with still cameras and transferring everything over—

08:30 Speaker 1 By the way, before Kikar HaShabbat, were you already doing work for newspapers?

08:33 Speaker 2 Oh, no, that came afterward.

08:34 Speaker 1 Oh, that came afterward. Okay.

08:35 Speaker 2 It started with Kikar HaShabbat. I’d take pictures with a still camera, transfer them over, and so on. And then: okay, now translate what you did with your hands into something other people can make. Because you want to give people a recipe—I do, at least—that comes pretty close to what you made, so that someone reading it can make it successfully too. And that was very hard. At first, I found it really, really hard to translate those hand movements into—

09:01 Speaker 1 Absolutely. Take soup, for example. How many liters of water do you add? Who counts liters?

09:06 Speaker 2 Right. And suddenly I started turning pots over to read how many liters they held.

09:10 Speaker 1 That’s something. You have to change your whole way of looking at quantities and—

09:14 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

09:14 Speaker 1 At what you’re doing in general, because you have to give those actions names too.

09:17 Speaker 2 Right, right.

09:18 Speaker 1 Because, well, you have to say that it needs to be stirred.

09:20 Speaker 2 Right.

09:20 Speaker 1 It isn’t obvious.

09:20 Speaker 2 I’d write, “Parboil the...” and people would ask, “What does ‘parboil’ mean?”

09:25 Speaker 1 You need a little glossary on the side.

09:25 Speaker 2 Yes, terms that... Well, over time they became second nature to me. But there really wasn’t any media to learn from, nothing. I’d buy booklets and food magazines, buy ingredients, and keep trying and trying. Over the years—and I say this in my workshops too—the world has become so much more advanced. When I used to come to America, I’d see all sorts of pre-cut, packaged vegetables that you could just toss into a pot. Now you can get them in Israel too. Or fresh, chilled chicken. Who buys those poor frozen chickens in white plastic bags anymore?

09:52 Speaker 1 Well, people do in Jerusalem, sweetheart. It’s not the same everywhere.

09:54 Speaker 2 Hardly anyone does. Okay, yes, but still, the way we think about things keeps changing. Everything changes. I remember going with my father—

10:01 Speaker 1 You pick up a cookbook from twenty years ago...

10:03 Speaker 2 I have a book from—

10:04 Speaker 1 You practically need a translator.

10:05 Speaker 2 Yes. Once I took a book from my father’s house that had belonged to my mother. Oh my goodness, you can’t imagine how much text there was. So much text. Hashem! It wasn’t just ingredients and instructions. Not at all. It was a whole story—you had to read an entire book to understand how to make a cake. And there wasn’t even a photo, only an illustration.

10:23 Speaker 1 Wow.

10:23 Speaker 2 Because there wasn’t even an option to include one.

10:24 Speaker 1 Right, there were those drawings that—

10:25 Speaker 2 Illustrations, as if someone had drawn them with a pen or pencil. I don’t know. So the world has changed tremendously; everything is much more readily available. I remember going with my father when I was little to the place where he bought fish for Shabbos, and everything was frozen. And I remember that... You know that association of freezers with a certain smell? That’s because things used to sit around for ages, even in the supermarket. Today everything turns over, everything is fresh and available. Fresh salmon arrives from Norway in insulated boxes twice a week. Really fresh—as if the fish were just caught and were already on a plane to Israel. Everything keeps advancing, improving, growing and changing, and we have to learn along with it. You know how certain habits stick? “Soak the fish in loads of salt and lemon.” No, sweetheart, those days are gone. The fish was swimming yesterday! It hasn’t sat in a freezer for ages. Everything changes and improves. Even the freezers in supermarkets are better. They freeze things more thoroughly, so the food doesn’t absorb all those smells around it.

11:21 Speaker 1 Of course. I never thought about that.

11:23 Speaker 2 People don’t realize it, but the world is constantly improving and becoming more advanced. Take mehadrin cauliflower. At one time it wasn’t an option at all. Then, for years, it was available, but only for two weeks at the market. Suddenly they learn to extend its shelf life through refrigeration, or they grow more of it, or demand increases and people want to buy fresh mehadrin cauliflower. All sorts of things—

11:47 Speaker 1 That really changes the whole—

11:48 Speaker 2 Of course, because people used to cook with very basic things.

11:51 Speaker 1 Tell me, sushi suddenly arrived on the scene. It just burst onto the scene, right?

11:54 Speaker 2 Right. I—

11:55 Speaker 1 It didn’t used to be around.

11:56 Speaker 2 I think it was my first—or maybe second or third—birthday after I got married. My husband saw how much I liked sushi, so he threw me a birthday party and ordered loads and loads of it. The guests nearly fainted. People ate it while picking apart the pieces to figure out what they were tasting, and—

12:11 Speaker 1 I was in a store not long ago and heard a boy, maybe seven years old, say to his mother, “Mom, let’s buy sushi.” And I thought, who even knew what sushi was? When I was a child, it didn’t exist here.

12:20 Speaker 2 Right, exactly. My children like both eating it and making it. They make it too, though it’s a little more complicated because there’s so much—

12:26 Speaker 1 Do you bring them into the kitchen to...?

12:28 Speaker 2 Everyone’s in the kitchen at my house.

12:30 Speaker 1 Sitting there. Like those stories: “I sat on the counter and watched my mother cook.”

12:34 Speaker 2 But that’s not how it is at my house. You see, we host a lot, and the kitchen is a big deal. It’s always busy. So the children always want to be part of it. One comes downstairs: “What can I do?” So he peels or cuts or chops. Everyone eats.

12:47 Speaker 1 A whole sushi-making team.

12:49 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. Sometimes people ask me, “Why don’t you get someone to help?” And I tell them, “I really don’t need to. At my house, everyone...”

12:54 Speaker 1 Wow, that’s wonderful.

12:54 Speaker 2 Everyone’s in the kitchen.

12:55 Speaker 1 Who washes the dishes?

12:56 Speaker 2 Everyone helps. Well—

12:57 Speaker 1 The million-dollar question.

12:58 Speaker 2 That’s the question. Honestly, the hardest thing about cooking is the mess. Yesterday, for example, I had a workshop, and I told them, “Listen, don’t buy appliances you know will sit in a cupboard, and that you’ll think twice—or ten times—before taking out. If it isn’t on the counter, in a drawer, or somewhere accessible, you either won’t take it out or you won’t put it away.”

13:17 Speaker 1 Right.

13:17 Speaker 2 Something’s going to happen there. And I’m the same way. As much as I love a clean kitchen with nothing on the counter, in the end, the mixer and the food processor need to be easy to get to. Otherwise you’ll hesitate and start wondering whether to take one out at all, knowing you’ll have to wash it afterward.

13:31 Speaker 1 Whether it’s worth getting the whole thing dirty.

13:32 Speaker 2 Exactly. But if it’s already on the counter, it’s right there, it’s easier to use, and you can easily rinse it with water. That’s much easier than taking it out and putting it away again. Anyway, the world really is moving in that direction all the time. We keep coming across new kinds of fruit. Apart from the fact that they’re growing them, there’s the abundance, the availability of everything.

13:49 Speaker 1 And they bring things in from all sorts of places around the world that they didn’t used to.

13:51 Speaker 2 Exactly. I remember going to London, say, ten years ago. I’d be out walking around, and what can Jews eat anywhere in the world? Fruit. So I’d go down to the supermarket and find apricots in winter. It felt strange even to eat them. Grapes in winter—things they simply import year-round from wherever they’re growing. They’re available, and people eat them all year. For us, apricots have a season of about three weeks. By the fourth week, you’re already making apricot cake because they’re about to go bad. It’s a fruit with such a short season. So everything is changing and becoming more advanced. I remember trying to find fresh champignon mushrooms when I got married. I remember buying them once, but I’d only known canned mushrooms. So where was I supposed to get them?

14:29 Speaker 1 Right, they were less common back then too.

14:31 Speaker 2 That’s what I mean. Young people today don’t know what things used to be like—how people shopped, how they planned, how they weighed things. You know, so much is changing. We’re moving to electric and automatic everything, ordering online, and people don’t know. People used to haul a shopping cart to the market and go from stall to stall.

14:48 Speaker 1 Take cheeses, for example—you can’t even keep track anymore. You get to the supermarket and you don’t recognize half the things there. There are all these new products.

14:55 Speaker 2 More than that: one day we were on vacation, staying at a hotel, and I said to my friend, “Listen, there was a time when someone came to a hotel and savored the food. It was food they hadn’t eaten before and wouldn’t eat again until the next vacation.” You know, it was a whole experience. Let’s eat and enjoy every pastry and everything. Today people make everything at home. The world is full of abundance. Someone used to be able to talk for a whole week about what they ate for breakfast at the hotel. Today they’ve already eaten it at a café. And more than that, my parents used to invite friends over for coffee. Who invites friends over for coffee today? Now it’s, “Let’s go out—just tell me where to meet you.” You see? Everything is changing and expanding and getting better. Yes, it’s a world of abundance that gives us so much, and we need to know how to enjoy it.

15:36 Speaker 1 I love that way of looking at it. I’d never thought about it like that. Because so many changes happen over the years, and things have become more industrialized, for example. But on the other hand, there really are so many good things too—all that availability, and all that travel.

15:50 Speaker 2 But there’s also more awareness about doing things that aren’t industrialized. Or, say, buying something ready-made but looking at the—you know, the fine print: where it’s from, where it came from, how much of what’s in it is actually the ingredient I want, or whether it’s some imitation. So people are much more aware, too. In the past, if people wanted corn schnitzel, they bought it. I don’t know whether they thought about it, or maybe tried making it at home. You see? There’s much more awareness about everything. And I say, enjoy the good in everything, with abundance and balance. Enjoy it in moderation. We need balance in every part of life. Enjoy it. My mother always used to say, “Even a spoonful of honey can be too sweet.” Enjoy everything, including the abundance, but within limits. Not without limits, not buying without looking or knowing what you’re getting. It’s all fine, it’s good, but it should be balanced. We should keep our finger on the pulse, not spend too freely, not buy things for no reason and end up violating bal tashchis.

16:45 Speaker 3 Beautiful.

16:46 Speaker 2 All those things.

16:46 Speaker 3 We really need to stay on top of them, because sometimes we say, “Well, everyone’s buying it, everyone’s doing it.”

16:51 Speaker 2 You get into this loop of thinking you have to, because everyone else does.

16:52 Speaker 3 The children bring that into it too. One day, one of my children said, “All the kids in my class bring a pudding every day.” So I said, “Wait, let’s see who ‘all the kids’ are.” It turned out to be one kid. Yes.

17:03 Speaker 2 Yes.

17:03 Speaker 3 And somehow these standards creep in. But...

17:08 Speaker 2 Right.

17:08 Speaker 3 In my home, in our home, this is how it’s going to be. And that really is part of educating children.

17:13 Speaker 2 To hold firm—really, really firm—on your standards. “All the girls are going there, all the boys are going there.” So you really have to hold on to what’s right for our home. That doesn’t suit us. We can do it, but on special occasions, when it matters.

17:24 Speaker 3 Absolutely.

17:25 Speaker 2 To celebrate something and so on. That applies to life in general. I posted about it once, and wow, it got so many responses.

17:31 Speaker 3 What?

17:32 Speaker 2 This whole thing with screens and media, and shopping online all day. You need balance there too: to understand what’s right for me, what kinds of content I’m consuming.

17:43 Speaker 3 Absolutely.

17:43 Speaker 2 Does it inspire me, uplift me, add something to my life? When I close it, do I come away with something good, or do I close it feeling disappointed with my life because I don’t have what someone else has?

17:50 Speaker 3 Wow, absolutely. Absolutely.

17:51 Speaker 2 So, you know, that applies to everything in life. Make it part of how you live.

17:55 Speaker 3 Everything we take in needs to be considered.

17:57 Speaker 2 Exactly. We shouldn’t be like a sheep following its shepherd, with no idea where we’re going, what we’re stepping on or what we’re eating. That’s us...

18:03 Speaker 3 Wow, absolutely.

18:03 Speaker 2 Human beings. We can examine things, choose, stop for a moment and know what’s right for us. In everything, everything, everything. With our Shabbos tables too—we really do love making them special. But I always make a lot without making a lot of each thing. I might make twenty-five or thirty salads, but I make a little of each.

18:22 Speaker 3 Wow, wow, wow.

18:23 Speaker 2 But that’s also because I can’t stop myself once they come home from shul on Friday night.

18:26 Speaker 3 I read a joke that some people have chai—eighteen—salads on the table, while Ashkenazim have something chai—alive—in every salad.

18:33 Speaker 2 I once went to a friend’s house for Shabbos, and the only thing on the table was a container of hummus, still in its original container. Really, just the container of hummus, and nothing else.

18:45 Speaker 3 They didn’t even try to disguise the...

18:46 Speaker 2 Yes, wow. I’m telling you, it’s so much fun learning about other cultures. You think, okay... And you know what? One year—last year, actually—my daughter went to...

18:55 Speaker 3 I said I wished I could take a picture to show the kids, so they’d appreciate what they have.

18:57 Speaker 2 She went to camp in America for the summer. And even though it was a camp in America, still, when it comes down to it, there’s no...

19:04 Speaker 3 In America, they don’t know how to cook.

19:05 Speaker 2 There was no food, none of that. And as much as it hurt to hear about it when we spoke on the phone—my brother did spoil her, he looked after her and sent her things—but you know, I said, “Wow, you know what? The children learn to appreciate things, to see they aren’t a given.” Because everyone is born into the home they’re born into, and that’s what feels normal to them. It’s what they know. The food, the way their mother behaves, everything. Then suddenly they go somewhere else and discover, wow, there are other possibilities. There are other ways to live, and my life is good. It’s precisely that experience that makes you stop and see it.

19:34 Speaker 3 It gives you perspective.

19:36 Speaker 2 Exactly. My life is good. I get good food, my home is warm and loving, and...

19:40 Speaker 3 Your children are sure that every home has thirty salads at every other meal.

19:43 Speaker 2 More than that, I’m telling you, when they were younger and I served meat—they’re all grown up now—they would ask, “What number is this cut?” And the guests would look at them, because they wouldn’t even dare ask what kind of meat it was, while my children wanted to know whether it was number five or this cut or that cut.

19:56 Speaker 3 Oh, wow.

19:56 Speaker 2 You see? But really, those are the things they’re familiar with. And then, you know, they go away. When the boys went to yeshivah, for example, I would still send them cookies and fish and things like that, but they saw what was actually there, what other children ate, and they were fine with it. You see? And that makes me really happy, because ultimately it teaches you to be grateful for what you have and to be happy with it. Absolutely. And if there’s something I need to fix or change, I learn that too. But if children never leave home, for example, they know the same thing their whole lives. Right. So those experiences of going away teach us to be happy and grateful for what we have. Absolutely. For the abundance. Oh, that’s so true. Abundance and blessing. And when children go to other people’s homes, too. I think that beyond appreciating what you have, you discover another world. Though in your home there’s probably quite a mix. You cook food from every... Everything, yes. A bit of everything, as they say. Yes, every style. Yes, that’s the thing about Israel: in the end, what is Israeli food? What is it? True, there’s Mediterranean food, but there’s such an incredible coming together of Jews from all over the world here. Wow, I grew up eating all kinds of dishes that my grandmother certainly didn’t bring from Germany. All sorts of meatballs and things like that—everything has mixed together by now. So I have a Hungarian friend, and one day either I or someone else posted a picture of oshpelo, and she was sure it was Hungarian. But her grandmother had learned to make it when she lived in the Bukharian Quarter. Oshpelo is as Bukharian as it gets. Right, but she didn’t realize. Her grandmother had learned it from the neighbors and made it for the family, so they thought oshpelo was Hungarian food. Suddenly...

21:28 Speaker 2 She found out that it wasn’t Hungarian at all—it was Bukharian. Her grandmother had learned to make that dish from her Bukharian neighbors. So it really is a gathering of the exiles. Israelis love so many flavors, so many styles. Right. We can travel abroad, and the food might be delicious, but it’s not... it’s not the food back home. Right. I mean, here there’s... vegan food. There’s something about it—ultimately, they adapt it to our taste. Even restaurants adapt their food to the Israeli palate, because you can bring out a very fancy dish, and it can be beautiful and stunning and unusual, but if it doesn’t suit people’s tastes, they’ll stop eating it pretty quickly. Yeah, all those French dishes where they give you a crumb and a half. I don’t care whether it’s gourmet or not—I came hungry! I came to eat. Yeah, so it really is very, very, very tailored to us. Honestly, I’m telling you, even when a restaurant is this kind or that kind, in the end it’s always adapted to the Israeli palate, because we know so many flavors. So many. You know, in Europe you go out and eat a dry roll and whatever. To them that’s normal. That’s fine. We’re used to bread. Nice bread. Fresh bread every day. I think that’s wonderful. And the milk with the—anyway, everything really is so different. In the end you always miss home and want to come back and start... Exactly. Catching up on all the... the flavors we know and are used to. Those other tastes can almost put us off, even though there’s nothing wrong with them. They’re just a little... Yeah. Not quite as good. That’s it. So when you travel—and I always say this about all kinds of things that happen in life—stop for a second and take in the moment. Don’t just go through it and forget it. Be present for a moment and notice: wow, even our water back home tastes better. Even the water, even

22:49 Speaker 2 the water here has a different taste. It tastes better. Our milk tastes better. Everything we have—always remember to be present in that moment and notice, notice what we’re feeling and experiencing. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Wow, beautiful. Absolutely. Wait, so going back to the beginning of your journey, we stopped at the course with your friends from the park. Yes. So how did you carry on from there and develop it into an actual profession? Um, it really started like that, and then I ran a few more workshops. But look, nobody knew me. Even when I put an ad in some small neighborhood paper, no one knew who I was. So it went on like that. Later on, I worked... There was a café near my house, and they, they, they—I don’t know how it came about. How old were you then? Was this in Jerusalem? In Jerusalem, in Jerusalem. I came to Jerusalem when I was fourteen, and I’ve never moved anywhere else since. I couldn’t give it up. I even remember—here’s an example—when I was fourteen or fifteen, I was in downtown Jerusalem. I was studying at the seminary then. I said to myself, “Wow, what a lively city. I don’t want to go back to Be’er Sheva. Everyone there is asleep.” I really remember that moment when I said, “That’s it. I want to live in Jerusalem when I grow up.” That’s how it was. But it’s lovely that your eyes still light up when you talk about it, because, you know, every time I’m in Jerusalem I say, “Wow, it would be a dream to live here.” And then I tell myself, “But if I lived here, I probably wouldn’t get so excited about the city.” You know what I mean? I think that today, living there— When we’re in Jerusalem, we’ve traveled to Jerusalem, so we get excited by every sound. Right. So there’s

24:23 Speaker 2 no doubt that after so many years in Jerusalem, I’m probably less likely to go to the Kosel, you know, and maybe less excited when I walk around downtown, because it’s my city. Yes. We can walk around Italy and marvel at all kinds of things we have right outside our homes. But still, Jerusalem is Jerusalem, and there’s no substitute for it. No substitute. Absolutely. May it grow and expand until it encompasses the whole country, amen. Absolutely. Wow, amen. So you were gradually doing these courses. You started with the café, okay. Yes. At the café I made soups, because they were looking for someone to do that. They had food there and wanted something hot for the winter—soups. So all winter long, I don’t remember how many months, every other day I’d make several pots of soup there. Some people came every day to eat the soup. Wow. There was sweet potato soup, onion soup. Sometimes we even made lentil soup. What an interesting café. Do you remember its name? Yes. It’s a chain now—Sam Bagel. Oh. It had opened right near my home. How funny. I started there, and then they opened a branch downtown, so I started making soups there. Then I’d travel to Geula, to the branch in Geula, and then to the branch in Ramat Eshkol. Anyway, I had this route: I’d go to each branch and prepare the soups. Wow. Um, yes, and that was it. I did that for, I think, three or four winters. I don’t remember anymore. Then they moved to a factory—they had simply become a chain. It got

25:55 Speaker 2 very big, and they wanted me to work at the factory. But moving to a factory and working with all sorts of... didn’t suit me as well. That’s already a different experience. Yes, exactly. It’s not the same as making a pot of soup on the stove. So I left and parted ways with them. Then, after a while, another restaurant owned by the same people approached me and asked me to make desserts there. Oh, that’s a slightly different world. Yes. Isn’t it? Yes, yes, yes, of course. Cooking isn’t... you know, just sprinkling something in by eye. Not at all. With desserts, everything is very, very precise. I told myself I’d do it, but I’d choose the easier things. I’m not someone who’s going to weigh and measure everything. Right, exactly. Grams of flour or almond flour and all that—it’s not really my nature. As soon as my oldest daughter started baking, for example, I stopped baking at home. Great, someone took that over for me. Yes, exactly. She does it wonderfully, so there’s no need. I made desserts there for quite a long time. At the same time, I was already on Kikar HaShabbat—the Kikar HaShabbat website—posting food videos. When was it founded? Has it been around that long? Wow. Yes, it’s been many years. Before that, there was a site called Charedim 10. Right, I think it still exists. No, no, no. It doesn’t anymore? It shut down over some issue—they wanted to... destroy the... Oh, that was really at the dawn of the internet. Yes, yes, yes. Many, many years ago. I’m telling you, we used to shoot with a still camera and transfer the pictures to the computer with a cable. Yes, yes. There were no smartphones.

27:25 Speaker 2 Even. And then, on Kikar HaShabbat, I was posting videos all the time. I can say this—not that I’m trying to make something of it—but I was the first chareidi woman people saw on screen in a video like that. Right. And I remember they said, “Maybe, maybe you could wear a shawl?” I told them, “Listen, I think that for someone who’s on the internet, I’m probably one of the less problematic things they could see.” Yes. I mean, let’s start there. I don’t think I’m the problem for someone who’s there. “With a shawl.” As if that would make it more modest. You know, the first chareidi woman on the internet—with a shawl. Yes, that was the idea. But it came from concern. They were very worried, very, very worried: a chareidi woman on the internet. Anyone in that world today, or young people in general, won’t even understand what I’m talking about. Yes, yes. When something happens for the first time, it’s a big deal. And I told them, “Listen, this is me. I can wear a blouse with a higher neckline, but I’m not going to wear a shawl.” It just seemed ridiculous to me. At first, both the website and I got lots and lots of complaints from people saying it wasn’t right to show a woman, and it wasn’t right to show a chareidi woman. But again, we understood that this was where the world was going, and that it was okay. If we were keeping to the usual standards of modesty, then anyone for whom it really wasn’t appropriate could set their filters so they simply wouldn’t see it. That’s okay; it’s a personal choice. Restricted to women. Exactly. It’s your own choice not to look at things that aren’t right for you. And that was that. And from there it grew.

28:51 Speaker 2 I really was posting videos all the time, and then it became a proper studio. At first we filmed at home, and later it moved to a studio. One thing led to another. You’re still there today. Yes, and now I’m building a new studio. We steal your recipes. I’m waiting. You see, we just keep growing. New ingredients and new things come along, and you develop, listen, and see what’s out there. And you know, there are lots of trends too. Yes. They come and go. Yes, and in the end maybe only Grandma’s dishes really last. Exactly. On the one hand, there’s always room for something new. On the other hand, I think the old recipes are the ones people connect with most. Yes, it’s warm, home-cooked food, and that’s what everyone’s looking for. You also have a very practical approach, right? Yes. Not some fancy recipe with twenty steps. Heaven forbid. The opposite. The shorter, the better. As quick, tasty, and easy as possible. Even at the workshop, some of the women said, “How are we going to know how to make this?” I told them, “You’ll see how easy it is. You won’t believe it.” The idea really is to make a dish that looks beautiful, tastes good, and is pleasing to the eye, without needing two days of preparation. You know: go buy this, freeze it, take it out, cut it, put it in the oven, defrost it—don’t give me that. Yes, all those things. I really don’t connect with that, especially not for someone who wants to start trying new things, because it’s exhausting. Just thinking about the whole process is tiring, and halfway through you suddenly have to go do something else because it’s taking so long. That’s not practical. And I think mothers today, especially, need practical recipes.

30:18 Speaker 2 Women work full-time outside the home, have careers, and want to feed their families. That’s the thing: make recipes that are easy, quick, and tasty. Give me a few ideas for dinners that, on the one hand, are what we said—home food, warm food, something hot from the pot—and on the other hand, let’s say no more than ten minutes of preparation. Is there such a thing? Yes. First of all, I’d say— Or give some general tips. So I’d say that when you have a slightly freer day, or a quieter afternoon, don’t waste it. I always say this around Wednesday or Thursday; I post it for my followers: Don’t waste time. Think about Shabbos. Think ahead. Shabbos is almost here—what can you do now? How can you be practical so you arrive at Shabbos organized? And the same goes for the Yomim Tovim, which are almost here, with that whole stretch of Yomim Tovim and Shabbosim. Wow, we’re thirteen days away. You’re on top of it. Yes, yes, yes. I’m always extra aware because of my customers. So be practical and make double or triple batches. For example, I made fish patties with the women at the workshop just now. I told them, “Don’t wait until each Yom Tov, when you know you have a meal to prepare and so much else to do, to start shaping fish patties. No. Buy a large amount of ground fish, double or triple the recipe, and make the patties. Or at least prepare the mixture, so it’s ready. Then all you have to do is make tomato sauce and shape the patties into it.” That’s much easier than starting from scratch and thinking, “Wait, I need ground fish.” Yes, I need to get back to doing that. When we lived in Kharkov, I used to do it. I’ll never forget.

31:48 Speaker 2 Every few months, I would buy twenty kilos of ground fish. I’d multiply the recipe and divide it between loaf pans—like fish patties, but baked as a loaf. Yes, yes. Then every Friday I’d just take one out of the freezer and put it in the oven. How nice and convenient is that? A dream. A dream. Wow, I need to start doing that again. Oh my, I’d forgotten I used to do that. Or take a big pot of matbucha. In some homes, you can’t have Shabbos without matbucha. So you make a big pot, divide it into containers, and freeze it. Every Thursday, you take one out to defrost. Listen, especially when the Yomim Tovim come one after another, what a relief it is to take out a few things that are already prepared instead of starting from scratch. Challahs, for example: make another kilo or two of dough, freeze the challahs, and take them out when you need them. I don’t buy challahs. It’s rare for me to buy them for Shabbos or Yom Tov. But again, this is something I always say: if something is hard for you and you know you can be more practical about other things, let it go. Wow, that’s so true. Don’t wear yourself out insisting, “In our house, we only have homemade challah.” Don’t wear yourself out. If it isn’t manageable and it’s holding you up, let it go. There are other things to do. Remember, it’s important and everything, but at the end of the day, we’re making the food for the children. Right. So if it leaves you more irritable and less calm and relaxed with them, they’d happily give up the homemade challah if it meant you’d be more at ease. With everything, it’s about balance—understanding what makes sense, without going to either extreme. But for the Yomim Tovim, really do make double batches. When you have an afternoon to make yeast cakes, go ahead and make them, freeze a few loaves, and imagine how nice it’ll be on Sukkos when guests tell you they’re on their way. You just take out a loaf and warm it up instead of panicking.

33:15 Speaker 2 Suddenly someone is on the way over, and you have nothing to serve them. So this practice is very, very important and makes a lot of sense: make things in larger batches, certainly before Yom Tov, and you can carry that over into everyday life. For very busy mothers. For example, make a meatball mixture. Say it’s Friday, when you might be home more—everyone has her own schedule. Instead of making meatballs from half a kilo of meat, make them from two kilos, and you’ll have four meatball meals in the freezer. Or you can have the mixture ready, and then just defrost it and put the meatballs in sauce, like I said about the fish. Or you can even shape them into meatballs, bake the whole batch, and then you have baked meatballs in a zip-top bag in the freezer. You take them out and either defrost them in the microwave or put them into some sauce. It’s important to label things, too. Yes, that’s really, really important. You have loads of things in the freezer, and you’re like, What’s this? When was it made? Dairy or meat? Right? So yes, it’s very important to write on the bags what’s inside and even when it was made. Just so you know—sometimes something gets pushed around in there, and you feel like it’s been there too long. First step: buy a freezer. Yes. No, the regular freezer isn’t enough for... Right, that’s today’s world of abundance again. It really isn’t enough, because we want this and that and that and that, and we want everything available all the time. But I say, sometimes people don’t think of it. True, there are homes where there’s no room for another freezer, but if there is room, it’s worth thinking a little bigger. Even put one in one of the rooms. Don’t think twice. Look, I have a freezer here that came from my father’s house thirty—or I don’t know—

34:40 Speaker 2 how many years ago, maybe forty, and it’s still going. Things made back then lasted the longest. I say that nowadays every appliance has a self-destruct mechanism. Right. Within a few short years, boom, everything breaks, and there’s no point repairing it. So you have to buy a new one. No, the repairman will cost you as much as buying a new one, so you buy a new one. Everything’s cheaper that way. Exactly. The whole cycle just keeps turning over. And really, be practical. What works for my children? What do they like? Make it, pack it in containers, and freeze it. The relief that gives you. You should know that in America, women are already coming back from the mountains now, in the summer, and starting to bake for Yom Tov. They fill two or three freezers with meat they’ve already cooked, or cuts they’ve even put into sauce. You should know, you can freeze almost anything, and it comes out really, really good. Except potatoes, say. You need to teach a course on this. In soup, they don’t do as well. A course on freezing. A freezer course. And honestly, I’m telling you, even when I speak with Moroccan women, for whom it’s part of... I don’t have to tell you. Freezing is often treated like a dirty word. Like, “In our house we only eat fresh food.” Fine, so you only eat fresh food—and Mom collapses. Right, that’s what I’m saying. I also think that anyone who hasn’t tried it doesn’t realize it really does taste the same. The freezer stops time. Exactly. And freezers today are so good. What does a freezer do? You have to defrost things properly, too, right? Right, but what does a freezer do? It essentially freezes what you’ve made as it is. And when you defrost it, it’s the same. It’s like that with challahs, too. Sometimes I write, “Make challahs,” and people say to me, “What, you make challahs on Wednesday?” I make challahs, let them cool, wrap them in plastic wrap, put them in a zip-top bag, freeze them, take them out on Friday afternoon,

36:17 Speaker 2 and put them on top of the soup pot. What could be better than that? Why do I need to make challah on Friday, when I have a million other things to do? I want to come into Shabbos relaxed; I might even want to lie down for a bit. Why not? Everything can work if we plan ahead, if we think things through. And the freezer—a freezer is really not a dirty word. It does an excellent job; it helps so much and makes things so much easier. I’m telling you, apart from potatoes, which tend to fall apart when frozen—but potato kugel is an exception; potato kugel still comes out great. Or beets, for example, which have a reputation for getting a bit spongy. You can grate them. And these days, you don’t even have to buy beets and cook them for hours. You can buy cooked beets. It used to be, “Wow, you buy cooked beets?” Yes! Anything that can help me—all the chefs use them; it’s amazing—anything that helps me be more practical and prepare food better. There’s no reason in the world for us to work harder, or, you know, run ourselves ragged, when everything around us is becoming so much more advanced. Really, make use of these things. Now, I wouldn’t buy everything ready-made, but these practical things that make life easier—when they’re natural, too, and they haven’t packed them with a million ingredients that you then put into your body. It’s just cooked and vacuum-packed, and that’s how it keeps best. You can even check for yourselves. You know what? One day I said at a workshop that lately I’ve been making matbucha—and all the Moroccans are about to jump on me—from canned tomatoes. And to people that sounds like, “What? From canned tomatoes?” Now turn the package around and look at the ingredients. Ninety-nine point

37:44 Speaker 2 nine percent crushed tomatoes. So why should I take a tomato, blanch it to peel it, chop it, squeeze out the juice, and then cook it for hours because it has so much water? Cook it and cook it, until a pot this big turns into a pot this big. I can put in... Okay, sweetheart, maybe it doesn’t taste like your grandmother’s, but you aren’t your grandmother. And not only that: those canned tomatoes were picked and put straight into the can. Yes, there’s nothing else in there. They’re actually much fresher than... Yes, all they go through is a process of, well, being crushed or chopped. It depends; there are different kinds. You can buy diced tomatoes, you can buy other kinds. They go into cans, and they’re excellent tomatoes from Italy. What could be better? Why do we have to...? I say people didn’t understand. Once upon a time, people got up in the morning, and the husband went to work or went to pick what was growing in his field, or something like that, and the women stayed home. So she did the laundry, cleaned, ironed, and then spent five hours making food because she had nothing else to do. You have plenty to do. You work, you run, you rush around. The world is changing so much. We don’t have to make everything from scratch. If there are ways to make things easier for ourselves and still serve a delicious meal—yes, even with a can of crushed tomatoes—do it. Don’t be put off because your mother or grandmother didn’t do it, because you don’t know it from your grandmother. No, I really think it’s often a matter of opening your mind. And by the way, those tomatoes are relatively new, too. Canned tomatoes, yes. How long have they been around

39:15 Speaker 2 In Israel? No, not for long. Not long. So first it takes a moment just to get to know what it looks like, and then it’s like, “What is this?” Right. In workshops I often have to explain where to find the ingredient in the supermarket. Yes. I mean, say, the smell of a tomato is familiar, but where is this? Where do you even find it in the supermarket? In the freezer. Where is it? These days they have it in the refrigerators too. You should do something—make one of the workshop sessions a tour of the supermarket. Yes, I did have one course where I did something different with them. I always explain the ingredients as we go through the workshops, and there was one workshop I did for teenage girls. I did it twice, and then there was a period of intifada and it wasn’t suitable anymore. I took them to Machane Yehuda Market. We walked around and learned all sorts of things. Wow, what an experience. Then they gathered different ingredients, and we came back and made dishes with them. Cool. It was just really fun. At the time I lived in Karkur, and we had a market below our home. Wow, the markets in Ukraine are... Listen, there are stalls where each woman sells what she grew herself. A woman is standing there—I know it from Uman—selling a few peppers, parsley, clementines, whatever grew in her yard. Yes, it’s fresh. She picked it that morning. Yes, wow, it’s incredible. I know it from Uman. Every Thursday morning I’d come home from the market and put everything straight into the pot. I mean, I’d go teach, then go to the market, come home, and put everything I’d bought straight into the pots. Wow, what a dream, a dream, a dream. It really is a dream. Yes, it’s so much fun. I always say that maybe one day I’ll live near Machane Yehuda Market. Never mind

40:41 Speaker 2 that it’s not exactly straight from the harvest, but... That’s the thing: most markets in Israel are much more like shops. It’s just a shop in a market. Even an upscale shop. Right, especially Machane Yehuda Market. You might think you’ve arrived at a cheap market, but not at all. Everything is so expensive. You come out having paid through the nose, as they say. I think these days it may even be cheaper to buy things at the supermarket. There was a time when supermarkets didn’t sell vegetables at all. But what you’re saying about Kharkiv—I know it from Uman. When we used to travel to Uman, you’d see Ukrainian women sitting along the sidewalk, each selling what she’d grown. I’d say to the children, “Do you understand? This is how people used to do it.” If we stop for a moment and think: how did they make the chicken for Shabbos when they lived in remote places? They took the chicken to be shechted. From that one chicken they made everything: soup from the bones, chopped liver from the liver, and the necks went into the cholent. Right, and they roasted the pieces of chicken. They made a whole world out of one chicken. And they were more connected to their food. Yes, because they did everything by hand. Today everything comes to us online; sometimes we don’t even have to go to the supermarket. It connects you to the... I remember we were in Hungary for the Yom Tov season recently, and we did kapparos. Suddenly the children saw the shochet shecht the chickens right there and cut them up. They watched the whole process and were like, “Wait, that’s a chicken? That’s the chicken we eat? It was an animal?” And there was also... Yes, there was someone there, one of the guys who was staying with us, who decided to buy a sheep, and that sheep

42:14 Speaker 2 waited for a few days. All through Sukkos the children played with the sheep. It was tied to a tree, and on Simchas Torah we ate the sheep. Listen, I grew up with that. My grandfather would buy a sheep on Rosh Chodesh Nissan and put it in the yard, and on Erev Pesach they would shecht it. Incredible. It’s incredible. I grew up seeing them actually shecht the sheep, and my grandmother would clean it. So for a child to suddenly see that? Once I told my children about it, and they were shocked. They didn’t believe me. They said, “What, a sheep?” They were trying to understand. And you already know it, too. Yes, you’ve been its friend—“Hi, Tipsy!”—and suddenly it’s on the table. Yes, yes, it’s something completely different. Now you buy this cut and that cut and another cut. You have no idea what it once looked like before they processed all the... And it’s not just in Israel; there are markets and places like that all over the world. Wow, how interesting. You used to organize groups of women going to Uman, right? Yes, I organized groups twice, and I really felt that it was my shlichus to bring those women to Uman. Was it an audience you already had through your work as a chef? I don’t know. I posted on Facebook and in all sorts of places, you know, and... It was unbelievable how it all came together. I’ll tell you—it was incredible, because my brother-in-law, my husband’s brother, passed away very, very young in Uman. He suddenly had some kind of medical problem. Eventually they flew him back, but by then it had been three days. A young man, thirty-two years old. And

43:47 Speaker 2 they had only just gotten up from shiva for him on Wednesday, and the group was leaving for Uman on Motzaei Shabbos. I said, “How can I go? We’ve just finished shiva, and I’m going to leave my husband like this?” They were so close; he was such a close brother to him. I really struggled with it. Why would I do something like this now? But I said, “I can’t... I don’t have a real reason to cancel. I’m doing this. I’m going.” And we went. First of all, there was an incredible amount of snow. I really felt that Hashem had prepared the cure for me before the blow. It felt like a gift from Hashem. Going into that cold, into the snow, was healing. It cleared my soul, my spirit, after everything I’d been through, all the upheaval. It had happened so fast. A person got sick, they flew him back, two days later he passed away. Just like that. What? Out of nowhere. It was terribly, terribly unsettling. It wasn’t someone who had been ill for a long time, when you at least have some thought that maybe... Incredible. It was deeply unsettling, and first of all I felt that Hashem had prepared something for me personally, for afterward. Wow. And the group itself was amazing, because it was made up of Haredi women. Usually, who goes to Uman? Either someone who’s really a Breslov chossid, or baalos teshuvah who connect with Rabbi Nachman and his teachings. And women from outside who aren’t familiar with it yet. Yes, who aren’t familiar with it. But these were Haredi women who simply wanted to come. Sometimes they don’t feel comfortable joining that kind of group, and this one felt very comfortable to them. Open to everyone. Exactly. I organized the group with another wonderful woman. We went, and it was amazing.

45:27 Speaker 2 We went to the Baal Shem Tov, Reb Noson, and Reb Levi Yitzchok of Berditchev. It really felt like a journey, all of us walking through the snow like that. What an experience. It was absolutely incredible. The snow takes you into... Wow, I lived with that for years. Into another dimension. Yes, you sort of land somewhere else. There’s this feeling, and then suddenly you arrive somewhere warm. You appreciate it so much. You take off your coat and warm up for a moment, and every cup of tea is like... Yes, like medicine. Like gold. Yes. So it really was incredible and amazing. We went for three days. At the end, of course, women need to shop too, so we spent the last day in Kyiv shopping, and everyone enjoyed themselves. It was really a combined spiritual, emotional, and physical experience. Yes, we made sure there was a bit of everything, and there was. Then, after I got back, I suddenly remembered that my brother-in-law was very connected to Rabbi Nachman. My husband comes from a Breslov family. He’d told me, “You’ll end up taking frum women to Uman.” I looked at him and said, no, this is just a one-time thing. And it really was. Well, we did it twice, and then came COVID, I think, and the whole world changed. COVID disrupted everything. But wow, it was such a good trip. It also hasn’t been easy to get there since. Lots of friends say, come on, let’s go. But it’s a ten-hour drive from Moldova, and for me that’s... And even the basic flights. Yes, yes. Something that used to cost $250 or $300 now costs at least twice that. It’s crazy. Yes, yes, yes. So things really have changed a lot, but I truly felt I had a shlichus with those women who came. There was even one woman I didn’t know at all. She saw it on Facebook and came, and somehow there was this

46:58 Speaker 2 connection. A lovely woman. Later she needed help with something, and my husband... I said, where in the world would we ever have met her? Wow, those connections are amazing. She was from some city I don’t even think I’ve been to—I don’t even remember where—and she needed help with something. I offered to ask my husband, and he helped her so much. It all unfolded in a way that never would have happened without that trip. It really was... That’s what happens when you’re doing things. You keep asking yourself, what else do I have to bring into the world? Where else can I contribute? Because, honestly, when you say “a trip to Uman,” you usually picture some great Rebbetzin, you know, who’s been doing this for years. But you said, no, I can take a group. We have something to gain together, something to learn together, and that’s amazing. Yes, it was. Amazing. It really was lovely. It really was. I’m telling you, it was so amazing because it was just right. The people who came, the women—some of them were friends—and the whole trip and experience. The woman who organized it with me told them lots of stories about Rabbi Nachman and knew a bit more about him, even though she’s actually Litvish. When I was first exposed to Breslov, as far as I was concerned, Rabbi Nachman was a little booklet of stories about tzaddikim on the shelf. I mean... Wow, what a mix. Unbelievable. That’s it. I didn’t grow up with it. You didn’t see it as part of your world. No. I’m telling you, I remember when I was a girl, a friend from class told me her father went to Uman for Rosh Hashanah. I was stunned. Rosh Hashanah is such a family holiday. How could

48:26 Speaker 2 that be? What sense does it make? I remember calling my father and my sisters. I told just about everyone I came across that this was a thing. And she told me, yes, that’s how she’d grown up her whole life. Her father went to Uman with his brothers-in-law, or something like that, and all the women celebrated together. Wow. I was shocked, because I really didn’t know about the concept. But I said, well, Hashem was preparing me for the day my husband would go. And he doesn’t just go—he goes so often because of the hachnasas orchim operation he has there, which is huge and extraordinary. He’s so busy that he goes again and again before Rosh Hashanah to make sure everything is in place and as it should be, and that people have the best possible experience. Wow. It prepared you. Yes, completely. I told myself, wow, that was preparation. What is it actually like to spend Rosh Hashanah that way? Do you spend it with friends or family? Usually with family. Mostly family. Maybe when the children were small, I sometimes preferred to stay home because it was more comfortable for them. Not to put them through it. Exactly, so they’d have their own familiar space. Then I’d go to friends for the meals. But that was maybe for two years, when the children were really little and truly needed their own corner. Later there were years when I hosted at home and invited my sisters, and there are years when I go away. You get used to everything. Yes, it’s not so... It’s not as frightening as it looks. I can understand that in the first year, to someone who didn’t grow up with it, it might sound completely far-fetched or abnormal. But... Yes, I think once you understand

49:50 Speaker 2 its value and you see there... Exactly. What it gives the person who goes. You understand that Rosh Hashanah is a Yom Tov of prayer, that the start of the year is already... And there were years when I went. I can tell you, the davening there is simply incredible. Did you go as a family? Yes, yes, we went together. The little ones were with me too, and I said, come on, let’s all go. So we went, and we ran the hachnasas orchim together. I can show you pictures. We cooked in courtyards, with the most improvised kitchens. You know what Ukraine is like? Some makeshift setup. You use a slab of countertop, and that has to do. We improvised kitchens in courtyards to cook for the hachnasas orchim, with enormous pots. That’s an amazing experience too. Wow. And you’re there for the davening, for that worldwide Tikkun Haklali on Erev Yom Tov. It’s as if you’re in another world. You’re simply in another world. The spiritual energy is incredible—the davening, the emotion. It’s just amazing. Wow. You’ve been to Morocco too. Yes. With Nissim. Was that just once? What can you tell me about it? Morocco, yes. We took groups to Morocco, and my husband also organizes many hilulos there for the Abuchatzira family. In the winter there are several hilulos one after another. How do you organize things there? Is there some kind of base, a mehadrin kitchen or something? I can’t even picture what it looks like there; it sounds so far away to me. Yes, so Morocco is a little different, because you don’t have something there year-round... In Uman today, the community is very, very large. Jews live all around the area; there’s a real community there. In Morocco too, but there are very, very few of them, and they live, you know... But

51:28 Speaker 2 There’s equipment that’s kept in storage throughout the year. There’s a storeroom, they put the equipment there, and when they come back, they clean everything and organize it. The Arabs there really, really love Jews. It’s hard to say this, but the Arabs there don’t understand the Israeli conflict. They don’t understand what’s going on here. Really. They don’t know. They think we’re Palestinians. They genuinely have no idea. They don’t know what’s happening, and that works in our favor. So, you get there, you’re surrounded by Arabs, but they’re great. They’re great to you. Yes, and they work, and I say they’re born to be servants. They do everything for you, and they really know how to work and provide service. They do everything from A to Z. It’s incredible. You get there and you’re the king of Morocco. Yes. They have great respect for the king of Morocco, who has some connection with Jews. They feel very, very connected to that. There were a few stories in the past, too, with some of the kings there who... Right, right. So they have a lot of respect. They know about all the hilula gatherings. You’re going to a certain area for that hilula? Let’s go. They know the dates of the hilulas, they know when the Jews come. It’s something else. It really, really is. Really. They’re not the Arabs we know here. Really. It’s completely different. How interesting. Yes. Tell me, how do you manage to do everything? Your course for the girls has just finished, for example. Yes, right. And day to day, you make recipes for websites and newspapers. Right. So I do the newspaper. There’s Kikar HaShabbat. And I have clients I cook for privately. That’s once a week, isn’t it? Uh,

52:49 Speaker 2 Twice a week. Wow, that’s crazy. Honestly, an ordinary woman barely manages to cook for her own home. Well, it’s your job, but still... Yes, yes. People ask me how—First of all, I really, truly feel this, and I always say it when people ask me, “How do you manage to prepare so much food, all the food we see, in so little time?” I really feel I have extraordinary siyata diShmaya, extraordinary help from Above. It’s as though there are other people with me in the kitchen, because my children don’t come help me with the clients’ food. That’s what I wanted to ask: Who washes all the dishes there? There, I have help. Oh, you do. Yes, I have help there. You don’t take them on the tour with you? I wish I could. Wow. I do the cooking, but I really feel there’s extraordinary help from Above. It truly makes no sense. I can’t fathom how I manage to prepare everything, get it all done so quickly... And sometimes I come home and have clients whose food I prepare at my place and send out. So it really, really is an unusual degree of help from Above. I truly feel that Hakadosh Boruch Hu is with me, even in the little things. Say I crack an egg, and a piece of shell falls in, but it doesn’t disappear where I can’t see it. That’s help from Above too. Right. I really feel that. I take out the shell and think, what a miracle that I noticed it, because it could be dangerous. But you can see that it’s also your outlook. When you say, “I have a blessing in my time,” you’re bringing Hakadosh Boruch Hu into the pots, so to speak. Yes. So He’s there with you. Right. I really, really feel it. I mean, even today... You know,

54:13 Speaker 2 I cook on Thursdays, for example. Sometimes I’m feeling the exhaustion of the whole week, and I have to get up in the morning full of energy and prepare food with enthusiasm. Because food needs energy and love. You can’t do it halfheartedly. And I start preparing the food and say, “Okay, today I need a different kind of energy. I also need to leave here with energy, because afterward I have Shabbos at my place, and guests, and...” And I really feel it. You just have to ask for it, simply. You don’t have to reserve that for big things. Even in the kitchen, in the basic things of everyday life, you can ask for help from Above: that things should go well, that it should be easy, that I shouldn’t drop or spill anything or get stuck, and that I shouldn’t cut myself. A million accidents can happen in a kitchen. Right. And to leave there really feeling that help from Above—there’s nothing like it. I truly feel it with me every day. That’s beautiful. We often say, “I wish I had more hours in the day,” when what we really need is a blessing in the time we have. Exactly, exactly. Hakadosh Boruch Hu gave us the time we have. That means it’s enough for us to be able to do what we need to do. For every minute to be, from beginning to end—Right. Used well, reaching its full potential. I also think that today—you spoke earlier about content—the content we consume confuses us terribly and takes up our time. Oh, yes. You pick up your phone to... Why did you open WhatsApp? No, say you wanted a recipe. How do you make such-and-such? Then suddenly, wait, someone sent you a WhatsApp message,

55:40 Speaker 2 and you completely forget why you picked up your phone. The way we manage our time is crucial. So that’s another thing: in the kitchen, my phone is either playing a podcast I’m listening to, or it’s off. Not off, exactly, but on silent, set aside. I don’t use it. Good. Even my children say so. One day, someone told her daughter, “Call your mother.” And she said, “My mother’s at work. She doesn’t answer when she’s working.” They know I don’t answer. It’s rare. If I do answer, they say, “Oh, okay, I was just trying.” They wanted to ask something, but they weren’t at all sure I’d answer. You see? You have to be one hundred percent focused and present where you are, in what you’re doing. Otherwise, something burns or falls, something distracts you, and you’re no longer focused on what you’re doing. Did I put it in or didn’t I? Did I add salt? Did I season it or not?

56:30 Speaker 4 Wow. So that’s a tip for everything, really: to be present in what we’re doing—

56:34 Speaker 2 To do it all the way.

56:35 Speaker 4 To focus completely.

56:36 Speaker 2 Exactly.

56:36 Speaker 4 You make good use of your time. Sometimes I feel like I can do this and that and the other thing. I’ll prepare a class while I cook, and I’ll also... But no. You really have to sit down and focus on the one thing.

56:46 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes. Be present.

56:47 Speaker 4 Forget everything else—

56:47 Speaker 2 Once you’ve put the pots on, you can lower the heat, give them time, and do something else. But—

56:52 Speaker 4 Yes.

56:52 Speaker 2 But you do need to be present in what you’re doing so it comes out right and you don’t end up disappointed in yourself. Because then it starts another cycle in our heads: “Oh, what a shame, it didn’t taste good. I can’t get it right. I never get it right.” You know, all those kinds of

57:04 Speaker 4 Yes.

57:04 Speaker 2 thoughts that we can actually let go of.

57:06 Speaker 4 Wow, Moran, you’re wonderful! To wrap up, I’m curious, because you’ve studied a lot of Tanya—

57:11 Speaker 2 Yes.

57:12 Speaker 4 And I absolutely love Tanya.

57:13 Speaker 2 It’s so fascinating.

57:13 Speaker 4 It’s what I teach day to day—

57:14 Speaker 2 I’m telling you, I just don’t understand how people can miss out on knowing that Tanya exists, when it’s so—

57:20 Speaker 4 Right, that’s how you feel after learning it.

57:22 Speaker 2 It really, really is—

57:23 Speaker 4 You just want to go outside and shout, “People, learn this!” It’s...

57:26 Speaker 2 Yes. You see a friend of yours struggling with all sorts of things, and you know that if she learned Tanya, she’d be in a different place.

57:32 Speaker 4 Exactly. So give us something that really struck you, something you carry into everyday life.

57:35 Speaker 2 Wow. What really, really struck me was the idea of being “alive and enduring.” We’re both alive and enduring, and that’s amazing. Because we’re alive—one way or another, we live. But to live with a sense of our own lasting existence, to be occupied with doing, with being—because that’s when I’m truly alive, when I—

57:55 Speaker 4 Well, what is life, really?

57:56 Speaker 2 Real life is being busy. Everyone says to me, “What? How do you have the strength? How do you...?” What am I supposed to do, sit on the couch and...? And...? What would that give me? When I’m busy and doing things, I exist. That’s simply what truly gives me life. That’s my real life.

58:12 Speaker 4 Wow. So there you have it.

58:12 Speaker 2 And I think that’s the first thing that caught me when I learned Tanya. It has stayed with me in so many areas of life. Because, come on, when you’re self-employed, you can tell yourself, “I don’t feel like it today. I’m not answering anyone’s calls. I’m switching off today; they can wait.” But you understand that all your activity, your energy, your very sense of being alive, comes from being in action, from doing and giving. Who needs something? Who else can I give to? Who can I share with? Who else can I give tips to? A lot of times I don’t feel like starting to film. Filming a food video means putting the camera here, then there, editing it, adding music, transcribing it. But in the end I tell myself: one woman will make this recipe for Shabbos, and it’ll turn out delicious. For me, that’s—

59:00 Speaker 4 You’ve succeeded. You know? Because a lot of businesses ask, “How can I grow? How can I succeed? What else can I expand in my business?” But when you think about the people who need you, you ask, “What does my audience want?”

59:12 Speaker 2 Because we’re here for a reason.

59:14 Speaker 4 Exactly.

59:14 Speaker 2 To meet someone’s need.

59:16 Speaker 4 It’s incredible. Just incredible. It changes your life.

59:18 Speaker 2 And really, that’s a tip for businesspeople in general. Don’t be occupied with what it will bring you. Focus on what you bring to others, and it will grow from there. And when people need—

59:27 Speaker 4 Right, and then naturally you...

59:27 Speaker 2 Exactly. You’ll be doing things, you’ll be giving. You’ll bring that abundance into your own life, draw it in, and things will happen. Things will happen. And it’s amazing.

59:36 Speaker 4 Wow. Moran Pinto, thank you so much.

59:39 Speaker 2 Thank you. I really enjoyed—

59:40 Speaker 4 How can people follow you? You post status updates too.

59:41 Speaker 2 Right, on my status, yes, on my phone, and on Instagram.

59:43 Speaker 4 Okay, your number.

59:45 Speaker 2 Yes.

59:45 Speaker 4 We’ll put in links. Gladly, really.

59:47 Speaker 2 Gladly, very gladly. Women tell me, “Wow, my whole fridge is covered in your recipes. There isn’t a Shabbos when I don’t make something...” And for me, that makes the effort worthwhile—the work, you know, everything it takes.

59:59 Speaker 4 You plan a Shabbos meal at home, and you know there are so many other people...

1:00:01 Speaker 2 I promise you, that’s really how I feel. A lot of times I think about customers I’ve cooked for and say, “I wonder how it turned out for them.” You know?

1:00:08 Speaker 4 Wow.

1:00:08 Speaker 2 Whether they’re enjoying it. Or someone tells me she made a recipe, or sends me a picture showing that it came out beautifully, that it turned out well, and that the tips helped her. I know someone is eating food she made with all her heart because she saw it on my page. For me, that’s—

1:00:20 Speaker 4 That’s living.

1:00:21 Speaker 2 It really is.

1:00:21 Speaker 4 Fulfilling your shlichus. You just make it so clear, it’s—

1:00:24 Speaker 2 It really is—

1:00:25 Speaker 4 It’s just wonderful.

1:00:25 Speaker 2 It’s really a joy. It’s the real pleasure. For me, it’s through food. Sometimes when I’m cooking, I also cook for Shifra and Puah. I volunteer with them in one of the neighborhoods in Jerusalem.

1:00:34 Speaker 4 While you’re at it.

1:00:35 Speaker 2 While I’m at it. I’m doing it happily and easily anyway, so why not help them? And I’m telling you, I feel that everything has somewhere it needs to go. Even when I’m cutting up a salad and portioning it out, I think about the woman who’ll receive it: these are the cubes of avocado she was meant to get. These are the cubes of cucumber she needs.

1:00:53 Speaker 4 Vitamins for her and her baby.

1:00:55 Speaker 2 I really feel that all of it... We’re puppets on strings, after all. We may think we’re in control, but we’re not. We do things because we need to do them. We’re here to complete a piece of the Creator’s whole-world puzzle.

1:01:08 Speaker 4 Exactly.

1:01:08 Speaker 2 We each have a role. I’m telling you, even when I’m handing out the food and something falls, and I end up putting it here, I think, “Wow, it needed to be there, and now it is.”

1:01:14 Speaker 4 That’s part of the shlichus too.

1:01:15 Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely.

1:01:16 Speaker 4 Beautiful. And every woman, wherever she is.

1:01:17 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

1:01:18 Speaker 4 True. You don’t have to be a chef to...

1:01:19 Speaker 2 You don’t have to be a— You know, I often post on my status when I’m cooking for Shifra and Puah, and someone writes to me, “Wow, that gave me the idea to make breakfast for my neighbor who just had a baby.”

1:01:28 Speaker 4 How moving.

1:01:28 Speaker 2 That makes me so happy. I think, okay, maybe she doesn’t have Shifra and Puah, or maybe she doesn’t know whom to contact. But because of that post, she thought to make breakfast for her neighbor. For me, that made it worth it.

1:01:38 Speaker 4 And you don’t know what might come of it.

1:01:40 Speaker 2 Right, because you can’t know. The world keeps turning.

1:01:42 Speaker 4 And you also don’t know how many women were inspired and never told you.

1:01:44 Speaker 2 You know, several women have told me, “Wow, I’m in a Shifra and Puah group, but I haven’t signed up to help in ages. Then I saw your post, and it made me want to. I signed up to cook this week.” So in the end, their acts of kindness show others that it’s possible, that it isn’t such a huge or complicated thing. If we truly want to, we can. Think about things you really, really want. In the end, you manage to do them. So that’s...

1:02:03 Speaker 4 We have much more strength than we think.

1:02:05 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Absolutely, absolutely.

1:02:06 Speaker 4 Thank you, Moran.

1:02:08 Speaker 2 Thank you so much.

1:02:08 Speaker 4 Thank you so much.

1:02:09 Speaker 2 Thank you.