Ears to Hear 40 Part 2 | The Year in Which King Moshiach Will Be Revealed

00:00 Speaker 1 And Hashem has not given you a heart to know, eyes to see, or ears to hear.

00:08 Speaker 2 Ears to Hear. Audio programs for the Temimim from the Or Yomi website.

00:14 Speaker 3 And you need to do something here that the Rebbe wants to depend on us. You. I’m involved in holy work in general, and I’m handing this over to you. So where are you? You’re handing it right back to me.

00:29 Speaker 2 Shalom aleichem to all the Temimim in Tomchei Temimim Lubavitch yeshivos throughout the Holy Land and around the world. We’re continuing with another episode in the series of Ears to Hear’s program number forty, among the programs steeped in and permeated with Geulah and Moshiach—the Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach’s central concern, [unclear]. Program number forty includes several episodes on the revelation of the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach during the years of wonders. We’re privileged to sit here again, following the previous episode, with Rabbi David Nachshon, chairman of Agudas Chassidei Chabad in the Holy Land—the Nachshon who jumped into the sea on the subject of Moshiach. In the previous episode, we spoke at length by way of introduction about how, throughout the Rebbe’s years of leadership, Moshiach—or the revelation of the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach—was something clear, and how it reached a peak during the years of wonders. In this episode, we want to speak with Rabbi Nachshon in more detail about the revelation of the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach following the sicha of 28 Nissan. So let’s begin. Shalom aleichem, Rabbi Nachshon.

01:35 Speaker 3 Aleichem shalom, and yechi Melech HaMoshiach! Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu VeRabbeinu Melech HaMoshiach Leolam Vaed!

01:42 Speaker 2 We won’t manage to cover in one program all the events surrounding the revelation of Moshiach that took place in Nissan and Iyar 5751, so for now let’s focus at least on the period from 28 Nissan 5751 through 2 Iyar 5751: the well-known sicha, the gathering in Kfar Chabad that followed it, and the halachic ruling concerning the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach. Rabbi Nachshon, let’s begin with a general question before we get to 28 Nissan. Even beforehand, after the Gulf War, there was already a feeling that something was about to happen. The Rebbe’s extraordinary words had already been spoken; it was after Purim, after the victory. In Adar, the Rebbe also issued a very interesting general letter, and there was a yechidus that month, in Adar 5751, when you had the privilege of saying very special words to the Rebbe. The Rebbe gave a very special answer. In fact, we could open our program with that. What happened there?

02:31 Speaker 3 First of all, as you said, 5751 was a very, very extraordinary year. Just one example is that the Rebbe himself brought the passage from Yalkut Shimoni. We don’t pay enough attention to this, but the Rebbe was already establishing it as a fact. People had tried to ask the Rebbe whether it referred to earlier events, and the Rebbe said it did not. I mean the passage in Yalkut Shimoni about “the time of your Redemption has arrived,” where Moshiach stands on the roof of the Beis Hamikdash and proclaims, “The time of your Redemption has arrived.”

03:01 Speaker 2 With a clear identity for the person of Melech HaMoshiach. “The year in which Melech HaMoshiach is revealed” [unclear].

03:05 Speaker 3 “The year in which Melech HaMoshiach is revealed,” and so on. And no one—not a single chossid—thinks it’s talking about some other king. It’s talking about a year in which the Rebbe—there were many prophecies that year, and the Rebbe was speaking about the Gulf War. There were the missiles; the Rebbe said there would be no war, that there would be no gas attacks. There were so many things, and the Rebbe wouldn’t allow people to leave the Land of Israel. The Rebbe said what would happen, and indeed, it didn’t happen. Missiles fell here, and nothing happened, and so on. We know all that. It was a very turbulent period, and the Rebbe said that the passage in Yalkut Shimoni was speaking about this year—about kings provoking one another and the wars, and so on. And then, that same year, just as we were approaching—

03:50 Speaker 2 Parshas Mishpatim 5751.

03:52 Speaker 3 Parshas Mishpatim 5751. There the Rebbe speaks about the verse in his own chapter of Tehillim. He says, “I have found David, My servant; with My holy oil I have anointed him,” and—

04:03 Speaker 2 The appointment had already taken place.

04:04 Speaker 3 The appointment of Melech HaMoshiach had already taken place. It had already happened. In other words, he had already been anointed with holy oil; the anointing of Melech HaMoshiach had already taken place. What was still needed was for the people to accept his kingship, so that he would be fully revealed. Or there’s another wording—but in practice, the wording was very, very powerful: the people needed to accept his kingship. Sometimes, though, when we learn the sichos, we treat this as just another sicha, another Torah teaching. We don’t understand that when the Rebbe speaks, he is speaking prophecies. He is telling us things conveyed from Above, revealing to us the secrets, the secrets of the Torah. He says it in the form of a sicha, as though he’s simply talking with us about the situation. There is already a Melech HaMoshiach. There is already someone carrying out everything connected with the Gulf War; there is already someone standing on the roof of the Beis Hamikdash and proclaiming, “Humble ones, the time of your Redemption has arrived.” That reality already exists now. And it’s me—it’s the one saying this, the Rebbe saying it. He is preparing us for it, and then he says that it has already happened. This is not a new reality.

05:16 Speaker 2 The acceptance of his kingship.

05:16 Speaker 3 Yes. That’s the new development: all that’s needed is for the people to accept his kingship.

05:20 Speaker 2 Already.

05:20 Speaker 3 His kingship needs to be accepted.

05:21 Speaker 2 You had already understood that you could start talking about it.

05:24 Speaker 3 No, that was the whole point—

05:27 Speaker 2 In the previous episode, we explained that it had always been there.

05:29 Speaker 3 That it had been there. It wasn’t—

05:29 Speaker 2 But this was a new stage.

05:31 Speaker 3 But you can see it advancing. Just as during the Six-Day War or the Yom Kippur War, when there are wars, people’s hearts awaken to the sense that this is Moshiach’s time. It says that when there are wars, that is when the son of David is revealed. In short, you could see that this was a state just before the revelation—or a revelation reaching its peak. You reach the peak, and the Rebbe speaks about it, but people don’t pay attention. Then there’s the whole story of how the war stopped and what happened. That’s an incredible story in its own right: the Rebbe made a motion with his hand—“If so, let it be so”—and the Rebbe stopped the war.

06:07 Speaker 2 Purim.

06:07 Speaker 3 Yes.

06:08 Speaker 2 And then Pesach came.

06:09 Speaker 3 And then Pesach came, and we—

06:14 Speaker 2 When did you come to the Rebbe?

06:15 Speaker 3 We came on Pesach, in the morning, when there was the yechidus for the Machne Israel donors.

06:22 Speaker 2 The donors’ yechidus.

06:23 Speaker 3 The donors’ yechidus, and we were due to travel to Russia the next day, during Chol Hamoed. I saw that the Rebbe was very happy, so I asked for a blessing for two things—one for a complete recovery, and another matter concerning children. I asked for a blessing. The Rebbe said, “Amen, much success! Amen, much success!” in a very strong tone.

06:45 Speaker 2 For what?

06:46 Speaker 3 Two blessings.

06:46 Speaker 2 Ah.

06:47 Speaker 3 For each thing he said, “Amen, much success,” but with that kind of tone.

06:50 Speaker 2 Enthusiasm.

06:51 Speaker 3 Yes, that’s what I saw. The Rebbe made a movement—he showed me a gesture like this. It was a very—

06:58 Speaker 2 Uplifting.

06:59 Speaker 3 Uplifting. And because I was so moved, I said [unclear], “May the Rebbe be revealed now.” You know, I was excited, so I said it. The Rebbe gave a slight smile—you can see it in the video—and said, “Amen,” and then, “Soon, soon.” You could see that the Rebbe didn’t just brush it aside. He gave a slight smile and said to me, “Soon, soon.”

07:29 Speaker 2 That was an interesting response from the Rebbe. You had said those words to the Rebbe many times, but the words “Amen, soon” were very special.

07:37 Speaker 3 He had said “Amen” many times.

07:38 Speaker 2 “Soon” was very special.

07:40 Speaker 3 I just wanted to mention that there were also times when we were standing there. I would always say it to the Rebbe.

07:44 Speaker 2 Simchas Torah, yes.

07:45 Speaker 3 On Simchas Torah, he said it many, many times.

07:47 Speaker 2 But here the wording was special. I mean, if we’re trying to understand your frame of mind—

07:51 Speaker 3 I’ll also tell you about an occasion when I—

07:54 Speaker 2 We’ll include that.

07:55 Speaker 3 I also told the Rebbe, “The Rebbe is Moshiach,” and the Rebbe said to me, “Amen, amen.” That happened too.

08:02 Speaker 2 In connection with [unclear].

08:03 Speaker 3 Yes, 5747, on Simchas Torah.

08:05 Speaker 2 So here, when the Rebbe says, “Amen, soon,” let me try to get a little into how you felt. What was the feeling? After all—

08:13 Speaker 3 I thought it was really about to happen right then. This was it. We were already there. Just let me—let’s finish a few things. That was the feeling: “Don’t worry, you’re all right. We’re all right, we’re working on it.” As though the Rebbe was saying, “It’s all right. We’re on it; it’s on its way.”

08:35 Speaker 2 And afterward, because I [unclear]—

08:36 Speaker 3 There was another story from that trip. The next day we traveled to Moscow. We received a response about the brochures we had produced on the Seven Noahide Laws. The Rebbe had instructed us to produce brochures. I told my father that, judging by the response, something was missing. The Rebbe said, “Taken under consideration,” but there was no expression of appreciation, no sense of approval. And I knew what was missing, because someone in the secretariat had guided us—I forget who it was. He had said the Rebbe did not want us to mention him, or to say the Baal Shem Tov, and so on. But it was exactly the opposite. The Seven Noahide Laws need to be presented as a command from Moshe, the Moshe of our generation. Because the Rebbe is saying it, not because [unclear].

09:15 Speaker 2 To compel all the inhabitants of the world.

09:16 Speaker 3 Exactly. It’s not just because there’s such a thing as the Seven Noahide Laws. Who is commanding it? There’s a mitzvah, there’s the Geulah, and there’s a redeemer. As we always say, “Geulah, Moshiach”—something vague and up in the air. I’m saying: he has a name, he has an identity, he has everything.

09:34 Speaker 2 So from there, we move on to Nissan.

09:36 Speaker 3 And that really is what happened. It’s a story I’ll come back to, because there was a response afterward. We did change the brochures, and the next response about them was “much satisfaction.” But let me get back to the point. That was what happened there. All the while I was thinking, why are we going back? Then 11 Nissan came, and we went back home. My father called me and said there was a woman who could see things, and so on. I said, “You know, I’m not a big believer in that kind of talk.” He said, “Listen, she’s very connected to the Rebbe. She says the reason the Rebbe isn’t revealing himself, despite all our urgency, is that his chassidim aren’t connected to him. They don’t say he’s Moshiach, and they don’t go public with it.” That was after 11 Nissan, during Chol Hamoed. So I heard this from my father. He spoke very earnestly, because I’d said to him, “Look what’s happening here. The Rebbe said ‘soon,’ and 11 Nissan has already passed. Now we’re in Chol Hamoed, and nothing has moved. We’ve already found ‘Dovid, My servant,’ and everything.” So maybe it really was because of that sicha. I wrote to the Rebbe about the sicha and about finding “Dovid, My servant.” I sent him a letter saying that the people needed to accept his kingship. And now my father was telling me what this woman had said, and maybe the chassidim weren’t doing what they needed to do. So perhaps I would now propose it. I would go and propose to all the shluchim that they

11:12 Speaker 2 Publicize that the Rebbe is Moshiach.

11:13 Speaker 3 Publicize that the Rebbe is Moshiach and that his kingship must be accepted—in every newspaper, throughout the world. That would settle the matter. I put that into the letter. [unclear] The Rebbe rejected it as utterly unfounded,

11:26 Speaker 2 Completely, in the literal sense.

11:27 Speaker 3 So I understood that this wasn’t the way. That was it. About ten days passed. I think it was the eighteenth, the Rebbe’s birthday according to [unclear], and the Rebbe’s bris. That was when I wrote it. And exactly ten days later came the sicha of 28 Nissan. When 28 Nissan came, of course we were shaken. You know, words like those—you don’t yet know how to take them. You’re stunned by such words. Then we got a call—I don’t remember whether it was Zimron or someone else—asking us to come to Kfar Chabad on Motzaei Shabbos. We had to come. Fine, I said I’d come. Nobody knew what to do.

12:29 Speaker 2 But before the meeting in Kfar Chabad on Motzaei Shabbos, I want to understand what was going through your mind, Rabbi. After the response—I don’t mean a negative response—after the Rebbe’s guidance during Chol Hamoed Sukkos and Chol Hamoed Pesach that now was not the time, did you feel the sicha of 28 Nissan might change something? Or were things still unclear?

12:51 Speaker 3 I was trying to take in what was happening. Here the Rebbe was saying, “Do everything you can,” “bring it down into the vessels of tikkun,” and “I have done my part.” And then all the talk about everything being “futile and empty”—all those terrible words. I listened on Friday, and it was overwhelming. Here the Rebbe was speaking explicitly. But I understood that “explicitly” wasn’t straightforward in the usual way; I already understood there was something more here. Of course, once the Rebbe gives you—

13:24 Speaker 2 How do you explain that response today?

13:26 Speaker 3 No, even then it wasn’t that I didn’t understand. I said it then, and explained it publicly. Why did they ask me to speak? Because I did explain it then. I said the Rebbe wants this to come from us, not from him. He doesn’t want to—but later I understood it more deeply. The Rebbe was saying: What would it accomplish? Do you want me to say it? Then the whole world would say that the Lubavitcher Rebbe had instructed people to publicize that he is Moshiach.

13:53 Speaker 2 This is something that has to come from you.

13:54 Speaker 3 It has to come from—his kingship has to be accepted. He has already become king, but the people have to accept his kingship. It can’t be something he says himself. Why are you asking me that question?

14:03 Speaker 2 There is no king without a people. It has to come from the people.

14:05 Speaker 3 It’s not a question for me at all. The idea that I would tell you, and you would pass it on to the shluchim—that the Rebbe had given a blessing for it, and now an instruction had come from the Rebbe to publicize that he is Melech HaMoshiach—is out of the question. It’s a joke. That’s not how you go about it. The meeting was full of shouting and all sorts of things. Everyone had something to say; everyone was emotional. It was overwhelming—those words the Rebbe had spoken. We understood something was happening. I told them what had happened. Then people went up to the rabbonim, to Rabbi Chanzin and the others, Frumer and several more, and started shouting, “Make a ruling now! Make a ruling!” The rabbonim stood there, frightened, and said, “Yes, yes,” they would issue a ruling, and so on. I could see it wasn’t serious. That isn’t how you accept Melech HaMoshiach. But what could I do? I just saw all the shouting. Deep down, all the shouting, requests and demands didn’t sit right with me. One person spoke, then another. When they asked me to speak, someone else had just spoken—Peles, I think; I don’t remember who it was. They said three people should travel to the Rebbe and invite him. There was a first-class plane ticket for the Rebbe, so they could go and bring him. The three of us would travel as representatives of the meeting to—

15:45 Speaker 2 Who were the three of you?

15:46 Speaker 3 Tuvia Peles, Rivkind, and me. We would go and bring the Rebbe. “Here, look, here’s the ticket. You have a ticket—come, come.”

15:56 Speaker 2 Bring the Rebbe to Eretz Yisroel.

15:57 Speaker 3 Bring the Rebbe to Eretz Yisroel. As if this was what now had to come from below. You see? “Bring it down into vessels.” They thought that was the idea. It had already become [unclear]. The rabbonim were being shouted at, and people thought this was it. So when they asked me to speak, I cooled things down a little. I said, “Look, the Rebbe spoke explicitly.” I told them what had happened and said, “We have to understand that this isn’t a game. This is our work. It has to be something entirely different. We have to do something here that will truly bring about a change, not just a physical action.” But I wasn’t yet a hundred percent sure myself. Listen, it was still only ten days after that response.

16:38 Speaker 4 Intense revelations.

16:39 Speaker 3 It was still all intense revelations, all of it. Gradually, things fell into place. What did I do? Right then I decided to go and arrange for proper halachic rulings to be issued in a dignified way. Immediately after the meeting, I understood that nothing was moving here. This wasn’t getting anywhere. They wanted—

16:59 Speaker 4 But the meeting did discuss the Rebbe’s identity as Melech HaMoshiach and accepting his kingship—

17:02 Speaker 3 No, it was all about the Rebbe being Melech HaMoshiach. Of course they discussed it.

17:04 Speaker 4 Say that.

17:05 Speaker 3 Of course people had spoken about the Rebbe being Melech HaMoshiach, but right now we’re talking about the revelation of the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, as Melech HaMoshiach before the eyes of all mankind. That’s what we’re talking about. We’re asking: How? How do we do it? What actions are you going to take? Three determined people should come up with ideas and be persistent, and all that. The Rebbe gives all kinds of things here. You don’t know how to fit it all together, how it all works. It occurred to me right then that this wasn’t it. I wasn’t going to speak publicly about it. What was I going to do? I wasn’t just going to fly to the Rebbe with a plane ticket. I asked them, “What is this?” I’d be interested to hear how I said it. I remember saying, “Am I going to show the Rebbe my pretty face? What exactly am I going for? What am I bringing with me?” And then I came to the conclusion that if you go to him, you need to bring halachic rulings. The Rebbe is a man of halachah; this is Shulchan Aruch. You need to come with rulings. That idea came to me right then, though I didn’t say it. I certainly said I was going to take action. I took Avi, and after the meeting we drove to Rabbi Ashkenazi’s house.

18:10 Speaker 4 This was late at night.

18:11 Speaker 3 Yes, one in the morning. It ended at twelve, one in the morning. Rabbi Ashkenazi was already lying on the—

18:17 Speaker 4 I just want to clarify something before you continue this fascinating story. The ruling Rabbi Chanzin announced over the microphone didn’t satisfy you—the fact that he said the Rebbe was Melech HaMoshiach.

18:29 Speaker 3 Not at all.

18:29 Speaker 4 And Rabbi Shmuel Fromer shouted it over the microphone. That didn’t satisfy you because there was nothing tangible, nothing you could hold in your hands and bring to the Rebbe.

18:35 Speaker 3 I couldn’t. They—

18:36 Speaker 4 It’s very important to hear this.

18:37 Speaker 3 They enjoyed it, they shouted, everyone shouted and all that. But I was used to more discreet action, doing everything quietly. That’s how it had been at the gathering and with various things the Rebbe had asked for. It didn’t seem to me that this would move anything forward. It had no practical shape to it.

18:53 Speaker 4 So you got to the rabbi’s house?

18:53 Speaker 3 It was completely—there were no orderly means for it, nothing. And I understood that.

18:58 Speaker 4 You got to his house?

18:59 Speaker 3 I understood that we had to do something tangible, and I went. I didn’t tell Zimroni or Fromer or anyone. I didn’t tell anyone what we were going to—

19:07 Speaker 4 You went with Avi?

19:08 Speaker 3 With Avi.

19:08 Speaker 4 Okay.

19:09 Speaker 3 Only with Avi. I do everything with Avi.

19:10 Speaker 4 Yes, yes.

19:11 Speaker 3 And ever since I came, Avi has stuck with me, you know. He won’t leave my side.

19:16 Speaker 4 David and Yonasan.

19:17 Speaker 3 Yes. No, no. He says, “I don’t understand any of this. Whatever you say, I’ll do.” That’s Avi. So we went to Ashkenazi, to Rabbi Ashkenazi. He was lying there on a couch. We came to him, and I said, “Listen, we were there. This isn’t the way. It doesn’t accomplish anything. They’ll go, but I’m not going. They’re going to bring the Rebbe a plane ticket—first class. I could bring every plane in the world. What kind of thing is that? We need to bring the Rebbe something spiritual, something real.” I told him, “You need to issue a ruling now: a ruling that the Rebbe is Melech HaMoshiach and must redeem us. There has to be a ruling that rabbis will sign.”

20:00 Speaker 4 Did that happen too?

20:01 Speaker 3 To his credit, he got up from the couch just like that, without even putting anything on. He went straight to the table, sat down, and wrote that ruling—the one you see mentioned throughout all these years.

20:14 Speaker 4 30 Nissan.

20:15 Speaker 3 30 Nissan was that day, and—

20:18 Speaker 4 The chassidim of Sharabi [?].

20:20 Speaker 3 I’m telling you, he got up immediately and wrote the ruling.

20:23 Speaker 4 There’s also some background to Rabbi Ashkenazi and halachic rulings, because a ruling, a ruling about Moshiach, wasn’t entirely new. The ruling about the Geulah in 5746–5747—

20:31 Speaker 3 Yes.

20:31 Speaker 4 He had a part in that ruling about the Geulah. He knew the Rebbe valued the idea of a halachic ruling.

20:35 Speaker 3 He knew, yes. But here it was different, though there was that background.

20:37 Speaker 4 Here it was something much more serious.

20:39 Speaker 3 There had been difficulties, because at the time Rabbi Wendel [?] wrote a ruling that the Rebbe was Melech HaMoshiach, and the Rebbe asked him, “On what basis did you rule this?”

20:45 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

20:46 Speaker 3 So some people always say, “Maybe that applies to mine.” It didn’t apply to mine. On the contrary, the Rebbe wanted them to stand by it, but they got frightened and immediately backed down. People were always—[unclear].

20:55 Speaker 4 [unclear]

20:57 Speaker 3 Yes, yes, people were always concerned. Maybe we’re doing this or that. I had things like that myself. So, as I was saying—

21:02 Speaker 4 Back to Rabbi Ashkenazi.

21:03 Speaker 3 We were there with Rabbi Ashkenazi, and I asked him. He said, “But you can’t come to the Rebbe with a ruling signed only by me. That’s not the point.” We started making phone calls. He said, “This one is afraid.” I won’t mention names.

21:17 Speaker 4 No names, but—

21:18 Speaker 3 But—

21:18 Speaker 4 Serious rabbis.

21:20 Speaker 3 Yes, yes, certainly. People from the beis din and the like. Each one had some reason, and there were no—no—

21:30 Speaker 4 Takers.

21:31 Speaker 3 No takers for it, and it wasn’t working. He told me, “Look, there have to be at least a few rabbis. It has to be respectable. This is a ruling about Moshiach, not just some ordinary matter.” He said, “I’m not afraid, I’m not afraid.” But still, I tried all day and got nowhere. Nobody wanted to sign. So we decided—or I decided—that day. I sent someone, I don’t remember who, to get my passport. I wanted to travel straight away. I thought I’d have three rabbis and leave immediately, without going back home. But it didn’t work out exactly. I don’t remember; they couldn’t find the passport, so I went back here. And I kept trying during the day. We stayed in Kfar Chabad and tried to get hold of people. Then I called Sholom Ber Friedman in Milan and a few other fellows. I said, “Fellows, we need ten determined people. We need to commit ourselves to something here. We have to give ourselves to it. It won’t happen like this. We have to put in work. Every bit of strength we have is needed for Moshiach.” I spoke to a few fellows, Moshe Solomon among them, about coming with us. I said that if I couldn’t get rabbis, at least we would have determined people. Let’s come, let’s see, let’s go there, because the Rebbe mentions this here. From 28 Nissan, the Rebbe mentions 29, 30, Rosh Chodesh Sivan—he mentions a period extending into Sivan. I understood that the Rebbe was giving us a chance, a chance until Sivan. So let’s do what we can and set ourselves a deadline. If by then we haven’t gotten signatures or anything else, we’ll go there.

22:58 Speaker 4 And you would sign as chassidim on—

23:01 Speaker 3 Then we would do that, yes. We’d be the determined people. We’d think it through and get ourselves organized. We’d ask a few fellows to come, to come to the area.

23:09 Speaker 4 And what was the next signature that eventually came?

23:10 Speaker 3 I asked Sholom Ber and one of the fellows, [unclear]. There were a few fellows I asked to come without anyone knowing. I asked them to come to my office, at 820 Eastern Parkway, near 770.

23:27 Speaker 4 For these matters?

23:27 Speaker 3 Yes. They were to come there by five in the morning, all of them. Nobody needed to see them. Nobody should see them—not at 770, not anywhere. Just come straight to the office, and we’d get organized. That’s what I said: we’d get organized. We’d be a few fellows and get into it. That’s what we did. I asked Yankel Tilson—may Hashem send him a complete recovery—and others. And Sholom Ber Friedman was very close to me. So I asked a few fellows to come. He had once told me, “Whenever something needs doing, I’m a commando for that sort of thing, you know.” I said, “All right.” I didn’t want people to know. But I still hadn’t given up on the rabbis, because I knew the rabbis were the strongest thing—

24:18 Speaker 4 Let’s put it this way: it was a backup plan.

24:20 Speaker 3 A plan—yes.

24:21 Speaker 4 If the rabbis didn’t—

24:22 Speaker 3 No, no. It wasn’t only if that didn’t work. I said we needed that, but we needed this too. We needed everything.

24:27 Speaker 4 From every direction.

24:28 Speaker 3 It was another approach. There were the rabbis, but there were also the people who were holding things up. We needed this; we needed everything, the whole effort. But the Rebbe was giving it to us to figure out: “You do it.” Not for the Rebbe to tell us exactly how. The Rebbe didn’t say—well, the Rebbe did say, you know all those fellows. You have to do something here that the Rebbe wants to depend on us, on you. “I’m handing it over to you.” So where are you? Are you handing it right back to me?

25:05 Speaker 4 So there were really two things here: the rabbis’ signatures, which you still hadn’t given up on getting more of, and the determination of the chassidim. How did the next signature after Rabbi Ashkenazi’s come about?

25:16 Speaker 3 This is exactly what I’m about to tell you. So we’re getting organized, and we see it isn’t working. Rabbi Ashkenazi says to me—and I said, fine, I’ll travel with just one signature. Rabbi Ashkenazi says, “Listen, David, I don’t mind you presenting it. But it isn’t an honor for the King if I’m the only one. It’s not that I’m afraid—I stand behind my signature—but there need to be two more. You need at least two more.”

25:47 Speaker 4 Understandably.

25:48 Speaker 3 Yes, at least three people should sign it. So I said, fine, I’ll go there and see what happens. Meanwhile, the others will come, the whole group. We’ll have five of us, plus a few more who’ll add their signatures to the letter. We’ll prepare a letter too, and afterward we’ll travel to the Ohel, to the Frierdiker Rebbe, and do it. I don’t know. I had all sorts of ideas in my head. The first thing I said was that nobody should know. That was the first thing. I know, things like this are done—

26:14 Speaker 4 I obtained Rabbi Ashkenazi’s signature; only you and he knew.

26:16 Speaker 3 Nobody else knew. There was no one else. It hadn’t gotten out.

26:19 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm, and then you arrive in the neighborhood.

26:21 Speaker 3 So I arrive—I called this rabbi and that rabbi, and I had nothing. We traveled with—I got here, picked it up, and was home for fifteen minutes, maybe half an hour, I don’t know. I took the passports, told the Rebbetzin, “[unclear].” I came into the office here, and then [unclear] said to me, “If you’re going, maybe I’ll come too.” He asked to come with me. I told him, “Fine, but you should know we’re not sure. You should know, I’m not sure we’re coming back. This is a very—because it’s a trip where you don’t know how it will be received.” At any rate, we didn’t know how—now, as I’m telling it here, you don’t know. Everything—

27:05 Speaker 4 Very confused.

27:06 Speaker 3 Certainly, all of it. It has to be done by the people, and the people have to [unclear], and the people have to show mesirus nefesh. And the people have to—so you don’t know what to—In short, Avi is waiting for me. Avi says, “Whatever you want, I’ll do.” I say, fine. I sat here and wrote a letter. The letter is here. It said that we were now traveling to 770. We were leaving that night. We were heading to the airport—the flight was at one. We were traveling to bring about the revelation of the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, before the eyes of all flesh. That was the letter. I’ll read it, because it’s a very—looking at it now, you can see that we were focused on the goal. And how the Rebbe responded. “On the eve of Tuesday, [unclear], ‘a year in which I will show you wonders.’ Following the request of the Rebbe shlita, in light of the situation, we have decided—Rabbi Baruch ben Leah Taub and I, and Rabbi Shmarya ben Sarah Harel will join us—to leave tonight on El Al at one for Beis Chayeinu. I hereby request a blessing for great and extraordinary success, lechatchilah ariber, in our journey and everything connected with it, and in our mission. May the pleasantness of Hashem our G-d be upon us, and so on. May we merit the revelation of [unclear] the Rebbe shlita, Melech HaMoshiach, immediately, now, before the eyes of all flesh, in actual practice, down here below ten handbreadths, right now, now, now. We are trying to take all kinds of action in that direction. We have taken various things upon ourselves, and so on. Here in the city there is great enthusiasm. I also spoke to the Chabad women here, and they took it upon themselves to act, and so on. As above, everyone longs and wishes and pleads and cries out for Moshiach to come immediately. There is no possibility of any further delay in his revelation before the eyes of all flesh. [Unclear].” I signed it here. The answer to this came only after we got there; we hadn’t waited for an answer. The answer came only after we had taken the—

29:05 Speaker 3 Action.

29:06 Speaker 5 Of the halachic ruling.

29:07 Speaker 3 Of the halachic ruling, and afterward. So that day, when the Rebbe returned, or perhaps the next day, Wednesday, there was an answer: “I will mention it at the Ohel, and the time is opport for these matters.” So the Rebbe used that wording in connection with Moshiach—“the matter,” or “the matters.”

29:25 Speaker 5 Wow, that’s very special.

29:28 Speaker 3 And I go by Avi’s place to pick him up, and we travel, Avi and I. I told Avi, “Avi, you should know, you’re the man of tzedakah. You should know, it’s possible we won’t come back.” That’s how we spoke to each other. I said, “You should know, I don’t know what’s going to happen.”

29:43 Speaker 5 You can’t draw a conclusion; you don’t know where this will lead.

29:45 Speaker 3 We’re going all in now. That’s it—all the stories up till today are over. Now it’s everything. That was our approach. Generally, that was our approach throughout that period. And Avi said, “I’ve been with you until now, all this—I’m yours, I’m with you all the time. So I’m going with you to the end. Whatever happens to you will happen to me. We’re together.” And then we traveled, and there hadn’t been—and I had sent it some two or three hours before the flight.

30:18 Speaker 5 A letter to the Rebbe.

30:18 Speaker 3 Yes. So there was no answer, and I really didn’t wait for an answer either.

30:24 Speaker 5 In other words, there was this approach that the people were going to bring about the matter of Moshiach...

30:29 Speaker 3 I didn’t ask the Rebbe whether to travel. I didn’t ask the Rebbe whether to stop.

30:32 Speaker 5 You informed the Rebbe.

30:33 Speaker 3 I informed him that we were now on our way, setting out for this purpose.

30:37 Speaker 5 That letter is stirring. It’s a notification to the Rebbe.

30:41 Speaker 3 I’m saying, Motti, I’m not asking questions.

30:43 Speaker 5 Did you reach 770?

30:44 Speaker 3 Questions—there were no questions.

30:45 Speaker 5 Did you arrive at Beis Chayeinu?

30:46 Speaker 3 And these are things that depend on us. And then he leaves it to you. Then we arrive at the office. It was five in the morning, and all the other fellows arrived. Itzik Springer was there. I said to them, “What’s the plan? I don’t have signatures. I only have one signature. If we can now get Rabbi Marlow’s too—I was very friendly with him—then we’ll have that. If we have two, perhaps we’ll already get a third. And if not, we’ll proceed. The plan is that nobody leaves here. We wait right here in the office.” Itzik Springer comes with me. We go to Rabbi Marlow’s office, upstairs. It’s five or six in the morning. Rabbi Marlow isn’t there yet. Who was there, by hashgachah pratis? Rabbi Heller.

31:40 Speaker 5 Hashgachah pratis.

31:41 Speaker 3 Yes. So Itzik and I come to Rabbi Heller with it. He looks at it, and I say, “Rabbi Ashkenazi signed this. Are you willing to add your signature?” He looks at it. He was very uneasy; he didn’t know what to do. Then he asks me, “Do you agree that I’ll go down to the depths of Sheol together with you over this? Do you agree? Do you agree that I’ll go down to the depths of Sheol with you?” I told him, “If you’re comfortable being with me in this, please. I’m going wherever I’m going to carry this through. If you’re comfortable being together with me.” He says, “Fine.” And he signed. So we already had two signatures. We went downstairs, and I was really happy. I was overjoyed.

32:35 Speaker 6 Because moving from one signature to another already made the atmosphere better.

32:40 Speaker 3 And who do we see coming toward us on Kingston? Rabbi Gershon Mendel—Gershon Mendel Garelik, a chossid of—well, a rabbi. I tell him, “I need your signature stating that the Rebbe is Melech HaMoshiach.” This was right after the answer he’d received about what he had done in Milan. It had upset people, and they interpreted it in a distorted way.

33:01 Speaker 6 Yes.

33:01 Speaker 3 The people, you know.

33:02 Speaker 6 That’s a story in itself.

33:03 Speaker 3 Yes, that’s a story in itself. So he says to me, “Of course! What kind of question is that? Wonderful.” And there, on the car outside, he signs the ruling. So now we have three. Wow. We go back to the office, and I show them: we now have three rabbis. We can go ahead with plan number two. And when we came in, the fellows saw it, and everyone in the office erupted.

33:34 Speaker 6 Who is “everyone”? Give us a quick description.

33:36 Speaker 3 The people there were Itzik Springer, of course, Avi and me, and Shmarya. Sholom Ber Friedman was there, and [unclear] was there, and I think Moshe Slonim was there. We were the group that organized it. Yankel [unclear] too, as I said. We were cheering and dancing with joy that we had it. And now we weren’t going off to [unclear] or anywhere else; nobody was leaving. We were waiting until after davening, when the Rebbe finished. The Rebbe would go to the Ohel, to the cemetery. We went in Yankel [unclear]’s car to the mikveh.

34:18 Speaker 6 [unclear].

34:19 Speaker 3 Yes. Before that, we wrote a letter. In the letter we wrote about “do everything in your power” and all of that—everything that needed to be done. Then we decided to go all the way with this, with the determination, and that we were ready to give everything. We wrote very warm, powerful words: with our bodies, with our souls, everything. We wrote that we were ready to go all the way. We are the Rebbe’s [unclear].

34:48 Speaker 6 It brings to mind other stories in history about—

34:50 Speaker 3 I’ll tell you what we wrote there.

34:51 Speaker 6 The disciples of Rabbi Yosef della Reina, and the disciples of—

34:54 Speaker 3 No, no. We wrote that we were ready to go all the way so that the Rebbe would reveal himself, and that the letter was enclosed, and that we were the determined ones who were ready. And that was it.

35:05 Speaker 6 Enclosed with the rabbis’ signatures.

35:07 Speaker 3 There was a letter from the rabbis.

35:08 Speaker 6 Yes, alongside it.

35:09 Speaker 3 And alongside it—I had this letter with me, a second letter. It was like two letters, two pages. And while all this was happening, we arrived near the mikveh. I remember a police officer passed by. He didn’t know what it was. He looked over, but couldn’t quite tell what was going on, because we were sitting inside the car. I didn’t want anyone to know. We were waiting for the Rebbe.

35:29 Speaker 6 It really sounds like a secret mission.

35:32 Speaker 3 Exactly. People passed by, but they couldn’t really see us. We were sitting in the car, not standing by the mikveh, and the Rebbe wasn’t coming. The Rebbe always—

35:40 Speaker 6 Let me get one detail straight. Rabbi Mordechai hadn’t signed yet.

35:42 Speaker 3 He hadn’t signed. No. Maybe there were three.

35:44 Speaker 6 Okay.

35:44 Speaker 3 There were three, and then I got a call from the office here. Avi Ben Zechariah was here, in the office. He called Rabbi Bistritzky to tell him there were already signatures and so on.

35:56 Speaker 6 Rabbi Bistritzky signed.

35:57 Speaker 3 Of course. Here, can you see his signature?

35:58 Speaker 6 Yes, yes, yes, I see his signature.

36:00 Speaker 3 His signature was there. He added his signature.

36:02 Speaker 6 Who spoke to Rabbi Bistritzky?

36:04 Speaker 3 I don’t remember that detail, whether it was before this. Maybe we had left a message earlier. I don’t remember when he signed.

36:11 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

36:12 Speaker 3 So he got a message from us.

36:14 Speaker 6 It wasn’t that he knew Rabbi Levi’s or Gershon Mendel’s signatures had been added. He knew Rabbi Ashkenazi had signed.

36:20 Speaker 3 Yes, he knew Rabbi Ashkenazi had signed, and we were waiting to hear whether he would sign too.

36:24 Speaker 6 So we already had four signatures.

36:25 Speaker 3 I had sent it to three. In other words, I had said that two signatures from different places in Eretz Yisroel weren’t really enough for me. We needed at least three from there. So there was Rabbi Bistritzky and Rabbi Gedalia Axelrod. So...

36:40 Speaker 6 And Rabbi Ashkenazi, of course.

36:41 Speaker 3 Huh?

36:42 Speaker 6 And Rabbi Ashkenazi, of course.

36:43 Speaker 3 Rabbi Ashkenazi was already there. And then Rabbi Bistritzky signed, and they faxed it to me.

36:51 Speaker 6 You’re in the car.

36:52 Speaker 3 Huh?

36:53 Speaker 6 You’re in the car.

36:53 Speaker 3 We were in the car. So Akiva ran over. I had a secretary there, Akiva Marshall. He ran and brought me Rabbi Bistritzky’s signature too. So I already had four there with me. And then the Rebbe arrived. It was as though the Rebbe had waited. Suddenly I got a phone call from Yankel Telshner[?], saying that Rabbi Axelrod had also signed. But I didn’t have it yet.

37:19 Speaker 6 You didn’t have it in hand, though.

37:20 Speaker 3 I didn’t have it in hand.

37:20 Speaker 6 You only knew.

37:21 Speaker 3 I knew. So I wrote that Rabbi Axelrod had joined as well. That meant I had five rabbis—three from there—but I didn’t have his—

37:31 Speaker 6 Three from the Holy Land.

37:32 Speaker 3 From Eretz Yisroel. I didn’t physically have his signature, but we had his message that he’d signed and it would be delivered shortly. Meanwhile, the Rebbe arrived just as we got the message about Rabbi Axelrod. The Rebbe arrived and got out of the car, and we got out too. We knew he was coming. The Rebbe arrived fifty minutes after davening. Usually the Rebbe came right after davening and went straight to the mikveh. But here it was as though the Rebbe had waited for all the signatures to come in. It was extraordinary, how all the signatures came together. At that moment we had all the signatures we needed: three from Eretz Yisroel and two from there. The Rebbe arrived and got out. The five of us were standing there, and the Rebbe came toward us. I stood there holding the papers. The Rebbe looked at me as though he was already ready. It was as though he knew everything; it was all clear. The Rebbe came toward us, toward the steps, and we approached him. That’s where we met. Then I told the Rebbe, “This is a letter from the rabbis. These are the halachic rulings, and this is from the people.” In other words, there was a letter from the people and a letter from the rabbis.

38:46 Speaker 6 What were you feeling at that moment?

38:48 Speaker 3 The Rebbe immediately—the Rebbe immediately—

38:50 Speaker 6 Before the Rebbe responded. What were you feeling?

38:52 Speaker 3 I wasn’t myself. I was, I was, I was in—

38:56 Speaker 6 You were in a kind of numbness, emotionally shut off.

38:58 Speaker 3 I—

38:58 Speaker 6 Total devotion.

38:59 Speaker 3 I wasn’t present in myself. I wasn’t there at all. I had no feeling. I didn’t feel anything. I knew something had to be done. I wasn’t—I was someone who—

39:06 Speaker 6 A soldier.

39:07 Speaker 3 Yes. I didn’t need to think just then. This wasn’t about me. The Rebbe was approaching; I went up to him. I was a faithful servant, I belonged to the Rebbe, and I handed him what I needed to hand him. That was it. You just had to go up. I don’t know—you go up, and that’s it. You don’t think. There are no thoughts, nothing. We had waited anxiously. We were terribly tense, waiting for the Rebbe to come and accept it. There was tension.

39:30 Speaker 6 There was also the terrible tension that the Rebbe might not accept it. Was there a thought like that? That’s why I’m trying to bring out what you felt.

39:36 Speaker 3 I knew we had halachic rulings. I knew this was it, that this was very, very serious.

39:43 Speaker 6 You felt it that way.

39:44 Speaker 3 I said to the Rebbe, “This is a ruling from the rabbis, this is from the rabbis.” I mean, “From the rabbis, from the rabbis; from the people, from the people...” Something like that. I don’t remember exactly what I said. The Rebbe took it, and with that expression on his face he said, “Yasher koach, yasher koach.” He said it twice. He went up the steps with Binyamin. Then, after the Rebbe had gone in, Akiva arrived with Rabbi Axelrod’s page. Rabbi Axelrod had added a few words there too: “The time has come for His Holiness the Rebbe shlita to sit as King Moshiach upon the throne of...” That was Rabbi Axelrod, and he signed it. What he added gave it very, very strong weight. It was very moving to see. But I gave it to Binyamin, because he was the young man there. Then, when the Rebbe came out, Binyamin was standing by the door upstairs. He handed the Rebbe Rabbi Axelrod’s page as well. The Rebbe asked him, “Vos iz dos?”—“What is this?” So he said, “This is also in addition to what they gave you.” That was it. The Rebbe smiled and put it

41:04 Speaker 7 In his coat.

41:05 Speaker 3 In his coat. He put it in together with the other papers.

41:10 Speaker 7 How did you feel after something like that?

41:11 Speaker 3 After that, we drove from there—

41:14 Speaker 7 Before the drive—how did you feel? Rabbi Nachshon, we want to hear what—

41:18 Speaker 3 What I felt? I’ll tell you what happened.

41:21 Speaker 7 Those were very lofty moments. Not just in the history of the seventh generation, but in the history of—

41:25 Speaker 3 I can tell you—

41:25 Speaker 7 All the generations.

41:26 Speaker 3 We felt that this wasn’t just some ordinary thing. We felt that a very serious step had just been taken, something very substantial and serious, maybe even something—

41:40 Speaker 7 Historic.

41:41 Speaker 3 Historic. We felt it. When the Rebbe said, “Yasher koach, yasher koach,” we felt we were on our way. We were on the right path. We were on the path. But we had no time to think. We drove straight to the Ohel, before the Rebbe could arrive. The Rebbe was at the mikveh, so we could get there first. We took our letter together with the halachic rulings and drove to the Ohel of the Frierdiker Rebbe. There we read the rulings, read the letter we had written, and said “Yechi.” I read all of it, and we left immediately, just as the Rebbe was arriving. We really had no time. You know, that’s how we did everything. Then we went to the Rebbe’s mother and read it again. We said that we were asking the mother of the king to tell Rabbi Leivik[?] to instruct the Rebbe, through the mitzvah of honoring one’s father, to reveal himself as King Moshiach. That’s how it happened. Those were the words I used: that she should ask her husband, through the mitzvah of honoring one’s father, that the Rebbe—

43:04 Speaker 7 Remarkable. So that’s really—

43:05 Speaker 3 That’s what happened. Afterward we went to our Rebbetzin. The Rebbetzin—

43:09 Speaker 7 To yours—

43:09 Speaker 3 Mushka. The same thing; one of the group asked the same thing. While the Rebbe was at the Ohel, we could do it. We could stand outside there, you know. Then we left. That was it. We drove back toward 770.

43:24 Speaker 7 So, with Hashem’s help, we’ll continue the story in the next episode. In this episode, we got a very substantial overview—a fascinating podcast that gave us the facts as they happened, authentically: what led up to 18 Nissan, the atmosphere on 18 Nissan, the special meeting in Kfar Chabad, the signatures on the halachic ruling, and the presentation of that ruling with the rabbis’ signatures. These were, in essence, steps in the revelation of Melech HaMoshiach, with the Rebbe receiving the ruling. So, with Hashem’s help, in the next episode we’ll talk about the meeting of the Moshiach headquarters, the signatures accepting his kingship, the atmosphere, and the first Yechi declaration on television. With Hashem’s help, in the next episode. Thank you very much, Rabbi Nachshon.

44:04 Speaker 3 Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu VeRabbeinu Melech HaMoshiach Leolam Vaed.

44:09 Speaker 8 Ears to Hear, audio programs for the Temimim from ATAH Worldwide. For more programs, dial star 6358. Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu VeRabbeinu Melech HaMoshiach Leolam Vaed.