Ears to Hear 15 | And They Shall Also Believe in You Forever!

00:00 Speaker 1 And Hashem has not given you a heart to understand, eyes to see, or ears to hear.

00:08 Speaker 2 Ears to Hear. Audio programs for the Temimim, from the daily Or Yomi program of Ata Haolami.

00:15 Speaker 1 Well, you’re worse than those Berlin maskilim. One writes an essay, another writes a pilpul, and a third writes a book. Your writings need to be burned. So Reb Mendel said to him, “Measure yourself.” Take your own measure, so to speak. And then he said, “They need to be burned.” What are you afraid of? Maybe not. You’re worse than the Berlin maskilim. They used to call the maskilim from Berlin “the Berliners.” What are you doing? You’re writing essays. One writes an essay, another writes a pilpul, another writes a book. Your books and essays need to be burned. By then everyone could see there was no point in sitting there. Reb Mendel said it outright, and then one of the rabbis began [unclear], Rabbi Yulias [unclear], because it was very much to the point.

01:29 Speaker 2 Shalom aleichem to all the Temimim in Tomchei Temimim Lubavitch yeshivos throughout the Holy Land and around the world. We are now beginning a special program in the Ears to Hear audio series, a program steeped in a spirit of steadfast hiskashrus to the Rebbe shlita, Melech HaMoshiach, and to our central concern: our work for the day Moshiach comes. Chassidim absorbed their faith in the Rebbe’s words from their mothers’ wombs. At certain turning points in their lives, when chassidim needed to express that faith, they did so in the strongest and best way possible. We want to discuss those moments with Rabbi Betzalel Kupchik, the Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach’s shliach in Pune, India, founder of Mateh Moshiach in the Holy Land, and an energetic activist in matters of Moshiach. We’ll talk about the particular moments when chassidim stood firm, clearly and consistently, on the subject of Moshiach and their faith in the Rebbe’s words. We’ll discuss the years before the great surge of Geulah, when the subject of Moshiach had already begun to emerge, and especially 5753, when the Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach encouraged the singing of “Yechi.” In particular, we’ll discuss Yud Shvat 5753 and the worldwide coronation ceremony, the acceptance of his kingship across the globe. We’ll also speak with Rabbi Kupchik about his shlichus in Pune, India, and about consistently holding fast to the one shlichus that remains: welcoming Moshiach Tzidkeinu. “And in you they will believe forever.” Let’s speak with Rabbi Kupchik now. L’chaim, Rabbi Kupchik.

03:06 Speaker 1 L’chaim, and blessings.

03:06 Speaker 2 L’chaim and blessings. Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu V’Rabbeinu Melech HaMoshiach L’olam Va’ed.

03:10 Speaker 1 Yechi, yechi, yechi.

03:12 Speaker 2 We’re sitting together now for a special Ears to Hear program devoted entirely to Geulah and Moshiach. This time we want to speak with you about the particular work you’ve done in these matters. Later in the program we’ll naturally get to the remarkable years, to 5753, and to the period after Gimmel Tammuz. But as an introduction, as a foundation for the whole program, we’d first like to hear about your childhood as a chossid: your time as a bochur learning in the yeshiva in Kfar Chabad, then going on shlichus to the yeshiva in Migdal HaEmek—that special shlichus—and afterward spending the year with the Rebbe in 5749 [unclear]. In those years before the great surge, was the subject of Moshiach—and more specifically, the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach—already present? Was it discussed? Was it part of your conversations, or did those things only gain their special momentum later?

04:06 Speaker 1 I suppose I was fortunate that my father, of blessed memory, had become close to the Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach as far back as the time of the previous Rebbe. He came from the Chassidus of Sanz [unclear], I think, and immigrated to the Land of Israel alone. Once he happened to enter a shul in Tel Aviv, [unclear], and heard Rabbi Zalman Dvorkin—who is now in the World of Truth—Rabbi Zalman Dvorkin’s father. He heard him review a sicha of the Rebbe Rashab: “One who goes out to war”—a soldier of the House of David—“writes a bill of divorce for his wife.” That caught hold of him. A few years ago, someone brought me a letter from the yeshiva archives. My father wrote to the administration of the yeshiva [unclear] in Tel Aviv: “I heard the sicha of the Rebbe shlita.” At the time, “the Rebbe shlita” meant the Frierdiker Rebbe. That is how he referred to him. The date was 5705 [unclear].

05:14 Speaker 2 The date was 5705 [unclear].

05:16 Speaker 1 In the letter to the administration he wrote, “After much deliberation, I have decided that I wish to join the soldiers of the House of David. I would be grateful to the yeshiva administration if you would accept me.” And he signed at the bottom, “With blessings for the complete Geulah, S. Kupchik.”

05:33 Speaker 2 Shloime Kupchik.

05:34 Speaker 1 So that’s how our connection with Moshiach—

05:38 Speaker 2 Began back then.

05:39 Speaker 1 Moshiach brought my father to the Rebbe. Later, one thing I remember from childhood—I was already in ninth grade—there were several shuls, and my father went to daven with the Hungarians. There was no Chabad shul. Why did he go there? Because they started later and davened at a more measured pace. I always remember that after davening, my father would stay alone in the shul. Everyone else had left, and he would say that month’s portion of Tanya. At the time, I didn’t know exactly why he stayed. Now, he also gave a Chassidus class every Tuesday at the German Jews’ shul. There was a Jew there named Avrum Hoffman. He came from Brisk and had become attached to Chassidus, but the subject of Moshiach bothered him.

06:29 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

06:31 Speaker 1 He said to my father, “What’s this about Moshiach?” My father said, “What do you mean? What about Moshiach?” He said, “It’s [unclear].” So my father told him, “You simply don’t know the halachah. There’s a Rambam.” I remember hearing that as a child.

06:45 Speaker 2 Even back in those years, before these things became widely known.

06:48 Speaker 1 And then, at my bar mitzvah—these are just fragments I remember from before the revelation, so to speak.

06:55 Speaker 2 Your bar mitzvah would have been around 5730.

06:58 Speaker 1 5730. We lived in Kfar Saba, and we were the only Chabad family there. My older brother wanted me to have a chassidishe bar mitzvah, so he brought some bochurim from the yeshiva to play Chabad niggunim, and he managed to bring two chassidim. There was Bentzi Shem-Tov, the brother-in-law of Herman [unclear], and Rabbi Dov Ruskin, a Chabad rabbi in Haifa, a chossid. But even then, I noticed the nuances. You understand, how long has it been? Fifty years, fifty-five years. And I remember how Rabbi Dov Ruskin and Bentzi sort of rubbed each other the wrong way. Rabbi Ruskin belonged to the intelligentsia. He was a chassidishe Jew; he traveled to the Rebbe every year.

07:49 Speaker 2 Reb Bentzi Shem-Tov came from a different approach.

07:52 Speaker 1 But what did he ask? “What is this business of chassidim putting a picture of the Rebbe beneath a baby at his bris?” That was back then. It was—

08:03 Speaker 2 Different.

08:03 Speaker 1 So Bentzi Shem-Tov told him that there’s a Yerushalmi saying that a picture of a tzaddik is a segulah, and so on. I don’t know whether there is such a Yerushalmi, but Rabbi Dov Ruskin was clever. He probably wasn’t sure there was one either. So he said to him, “If Gerer chassidim did this instead of Chabad, what would you say?” He answered, “Then I wouldn’t know about any Yerushalmi.” That’s how it was. Even then, you could sense the different approaches. There were always farbrengens in Kfar Chabad. My father would take me there for Simchas Torah. There was always some Moshiach-minded chossid who would say “the Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach,” and usually there were also people who turned up their noses. But wait—you grew up with this as something natural. Did you feel an affinity with that group of chassidim who were, let’s call it, on the right wing? Why am I telling you this? Because I remember from a young age that it was there. It was a subject openly on the table, and clearly there were no questions about it. But it wasn’t as you describe. There wasn’t that enthusiasm and drive to influence others and reveal it to the world. You’re right. The Rebbe himself pointed out that the students each said their teacher was Moshiach. It’s written in the Gemara. Mm-hmm. Who writes that? Rashi, I think. Each one would interpret the name of Moshiach as referring to his own teacher; it wasn’t that the students searched for a name matching their teacher’s. That sank in deeply. But even then, you could already see the beginnings. You saw a connection to the subject: the Rebbe is the nasi of the generation; he is Melech HaMoshiach. And you followed that line. Yes. Moving forward, I really should devote a whole program to the shlichus in Migdal HaEmek and lots of other interesting things, but let’s jump ahead.

10:03 Speaker 1 We’ll skip over that—setting up the Chabad House in Rosh Pina, running Beis Levi Yitzchak in Tzfas, and even running the Oholei Yosef Yitzchak school network alongside Rabbi Feiman, at a time when you had to manage all of that. We’ll skip those years and come to the remarkable years that led to the tremendous awakening about Moshiach. In a moment we’ll also talk about the satellite broadcast. For you, what stirred you most about Moshiach during that period? When did you realize what was happening here? The sicha of 28 Nissan 5751. What stirred you? When the Rebbe came out for Yechi. So it was only 5753 that stirred you? This is what happened: I waited until Yom Tov was over to call my wife, and I printed it and sent it, and told them to put it up in the shul. I was sure that now there wouldn’t be any more problems. Simchas Torah—I mean Simchas Torah. Simchas Torah. To me it was obvious. What could anyone say now, G-d forbid, against it? Even after the first signs of Yechi began in 5751, and Dovid Nachshon’s refusal, things still weren’t clear? Of course they were clear, but there was opposition. And... do you remember here in Tzfas, when you tried to make the subject more visible and it wasn’t accepted even in our own camp? My wife told me—without naming names—that they took down that notice. I was shocked, so I sent her the text they had posted in 770. Everyone saw it, everyone heard it. It wasn’t some... And then... So for you, the real beginning of the drive to publicize Moshiach and the Rebbe’s revelation as Melech HaMoshiach was the beginning of 5753. The Rebbe came out to encourage Yechi, and you felt that something had changed. Yes. You were with the Rebbe that Tishrei, in 5753. Yes. And what did you feel when the Rebbe came out for Yechi? It’s impossible to describe. It was... this was it. This was the revelation. I have a friend named

12:03 Speaker 1 Avi Abulach[?], a chazzan. His mother is a chassid, but he studied in a more modern yeshiva. He lives on Long Island and would come for davening from time to time. Once, when he came and stood before the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach, he walked out stunned. He was tremendously moved. He couldn’t believe his eyes. And he told me that on Gimmel Tammuz, he suddenly got a phone call from one of Anash in Crown Heights saying that the Rebbe had passed away on Shabbos. He went into a kind of trance. What—how could...? In his straightforward way of thinking, he understood that he was with the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, and that everyone was passing before him, one by one, to give an accounting of what had happened during the exile. He thought, “What am I going to tell the Rebbe? What am I going to tell the Rebbe?” So he understood that things... how could he explain it to him? But to this day, he... He saw the Rebbe encouraging Yechi, and it penetrated his heart. Every time he brings it up, he says, “I saw the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, as Melech HaMoshiach for half an hour.” So that, of course, is what awakened everyone to Yechi and to the Rebbe’s revelation as Melech HaMoshiach. That brings us to the special date of Yud Shvat 5753. You were already in Israel, and preparations were underway for the satellite event, the acceptance of the kingship. There were indications in both directions: at first there was approval, then it turned out there wasn’t, and finally the Rebbe gave definitive approval for the satellite event, at which Yechi would clearly be proclaimed as an acceptance of the kingship. Of course there was going to be a broadcast in Israel, planned for Kfar Chabad. What was your connection to this whole story? You were in Tzfas and the broadcast was in Kfar Chabad. How did you get involved? Things were gathering momentum.

14:07 Speaker 1 It was beginning to take shape. I don’t remember exactly how I got involved, but the day before, Kobi Ben Ari said, “We need to hold a press conference.” Journalists and radio stations kept calling: “What’s the plan? What are you broadcasting today?” Everyone knew that today it was Moshiach, Moshiach, Moshiach—but what were they broadcasting? I have a good friend named Itzik Lifsh. Itzik Lifsh is a young man with Polish roots. Anyway, Kobi Ben Ari held a press conference. He notified the journalists’ center on Sokolov Street—I don’t remember exactly how—that there would be a press conference to explain the next day’s plans. I don’t know how many journalists came, but some did. You can see Rabbi Axelrod, Rabbi Wolpo and Itzik there; they were all there. There’s video of it. In short, that probably set the others off. They didn’t know what to do, because they were sure the radio was under their control. So how could this... But that’s a separate point. Then Itzik told me, “Tomorrow we need to be in Kfar Chabad.” Rabbi Lifsh knew there was a meeting planned of Chabad activists, intended to... The purpose of the meeting was to try to disrupt the satellite broadcast in Israel, or the satellite event altogether. They wanted it not to happen—that “the name of Israel be remembered no more,” G-d forbid. So they held the gathering. We had held a press conference, and Rabbi Wolpo spoke. What did he say there? “Not everyone with a white beard is a rabbi, and not every rabbi can know who Moshiach is.” He said things like that, with his sharp wit—words that upset some people. What upset them was the very fact that we had gone to the media. Suddenly the subject of the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach was out there. “How can you? How dare you?” It was like what happened in Mumbai. In Mumbai they held the anniversary event for Gabi and Rivky. We

16:14 Speaker 1 also came to Mumbai around that time. Someone came up to me and said, “But you’re not speaking to the media.” What did I have to do with the media? In the end, the media simply came to me. They saw a rabbi; they didn’t know who was who. Someone said to me, “What a surprise.” I said, “Why are you surprised? I’m not going to the media, but if the media comes to me, am I supposed to tell them to go away?” Anyway, I told him, “What do you think—this is America, where there’s no democracy and only you can speak? This is Mumbai; this is [unclear]. Asia. This is Asia. It’s a free city, a free country.” All right, so that’s the matter of the media. What happened was that the subject of Moshiach reached the media so openly. You couldn’t... What could you do? These were rabbis. Everyone could see them—one with a white beard, one with a black beard, rabbis. The subject made headlines as a result. But let’s start with Chabad. I assume those who wanted to stop the broadcast would have wanted that regardless of the press conference, but it gave them the spark that lit the match. I think Itzik Lifsh told me we had to come to Kfar Chabad because there was a meeting the next day. When Itzik Lifsh says to do something, you do it. I came to Kfar Chabad, and it was at Beis Rivkah. Did you know what kind of meeting it would be? Not in every detail, but we knew the general aim: “that the name of Israel be remembered no more.” That’s a verse from Tehillim. We knew for certain that the goal was to prevent the broadcast from taking place. Given the number and standing of the people who organized the meeting, was it clear to you that you could even get involved and salvage anything? It was just Itzik Lifsh. Itzik Lifsh told me, “Kopchik, you have to come,” so I came. “Kopchik, go to Mendel’s house.” All right. And he stood off to the side, and he... got things moving.

18:26 Speaker 1 Everything. He pulled the strings. And we had a friend, Borovsky—I can say his name now that he’s in the World of Truth—who worked there at Beis Rivkah. He arranged for us to sit in an adjoining room, with the audio, and listen to the meeting, to hear what they were saying. Then one of the rabbis got up and said, “This is Rabbi Wolpo,” or “not Rabbi Wolpo.” They said that we’d told the journalists we weren’t rabbis, and this and that. I couldn’t take that anymore. But let me back up a little, because at first I’d also asked myself where I fit into all this. I was pacing up and down the corridor. “Were you thinking of going in and saying your piece?” Gently. I know how to speak gently too, when I need to. Then Rabbi Gurary came out of the room and said to me, “Shuv Aleichem Kopchik, why aren’t you coming in?” I said, “I’ll come in soon.” So that was an informal invitation to the event. To me, it was very formal. In short, once they started telling lies in there—let them say what they want, but these were lies. I was at the press conference. You don’t have to tell me what happened. I already understood who had planted that story with them. Anyway, I went inside, and even that, you could say, wasn’t so bad. Rabbi Lipsker, the rabbi of Arad, may he be remembered for good in the World to Come, said to me, “Kopchik, what are you doing here? Did someone invite you?” I told him yes. He asked, “Who?” I said, “Gurary.” So Gurary didn’t know what to do. They asked him, “What, you invited him?” He made a gesture—it wasn’t a yes. It wasn’t exactly a no, but it wasn’t a yes. Fine, if he hadn’t invited me, if I’d made a mistake—or maybe I had—then I’d leave. A minute or two later, Rabbi Gurary came outside. He suddenly realized that he’d said to me, “Why aren’t you coming in?” That’s an invitation. Anyone could take it as an invitation.

20:45 Speaker 1 So he apologized. That was it. “Come in, come in.” So that’s how it happened there.

20:51 Speaker 3 So you were actually the only one sitting at the rabbis’ meeting who hadn’t been formally invited.

20:55 Speaker 1 They invited all sorts of people. Because whoever came out—

20:57 Speaker 3 And there were a lot of other activists there too, who weren’t necessarily connected with the Chabad rabbis, and—

21:01 Speaker 1 May they be remembered for good in the World to Come—Moni Gruzman, Yankel Katz, and Yisroel Alperin, may he be remembered for good in the World of Truth. I don’t think they invited him as one of the Chabad rabbis. And Rabbi Chanzin. So Yisroel started speaking. They didn’t want that. I mean, the people pulling the strings didn’t want his voice to be heard. And Rabbi Chanzin—“You weren’t invited to speak.” Rabbi Chanzin said, “I want to hear what Rabbi Alperin has to say.”

21:35 Speaker 3 So Rabbi Chanzin was the one who steered the rabbis’ meeting so that Yisroel Alperin would get the microphone?

21:41 Speaker 1 No, he didn’t steer it. He was already at an age when they, uh, [unclear].

21:46 Speaker 3 But he believed in—he wanted to hear Rabbi Alperin.

21:49 Speaker 1 Yes.

21:50 Speaker 3 And then Rabbi Alperin spoke with fiery passion.

21:54 Speaker 1 He spoke briefly and to the point. He said, “I come from the army. In the army, they tell you to fire at twelve hundred hours. There are several positions, and everyone sets their watches for twelve hundred hours, not before, because the enemy has to be taken by surprise. Then something happens: one person is so tense, so on edge, that his hand—his finger—shakes, he pulls the trigger, and a bullet goes off. Now everyone starts shouting at him, ‘It’s not twelve yet! There’s still time, there’s still time!’ But the element of surprise is gone anyway.”

22:41 Speaker 3 What was he getting at?

22:42 Speaker 1 So you jump on him. In other words, everyone understands it was a mistake. Fine, it was a mistake. You’re right. But what are you going to do now—tell the Arabs it was a mistake and they should wait another five minutes? He said, “Suppose we shouldn’t have said that the Rebbe is Melech HaMoshiach. You were told twelve hundred hours, but someone let it slip. So what do we do now—say no?” That was his point. And then Itzik Lifshitz looked around and saw what was happening—

23:11 Speaker 3 Things still weren’t clear or decisive at all.

23:14 Speaker 1 No, no, no. They really could have issued a prohibition. What helped was that Chifer z"l said to them, “Look, Beis Rivkah—the Rebbe gave it, and I’m in charge of the building. If you want to do it in Kfar Chabad, fine. If not, I’ll do it in a building in Kfar Chabad.”

23:32 Speaker 3 So you weren’t worried about the broadcast taking place. You were worried about where it would take place, and there was some concern about how the audience would receive it.

23:40 Speaker 1 It was all sort of dissolving. It wasn’t—

23:43 Speaker 3 It wasn’t just a question of location, it was—

23:45 Speaker 1 Now they extended it, and extended it another two hours. Anyway, Itzik Lifshitz told me, “We have to bring Reb Mendel. Only Reb Mendel can stop them.” So I drove over. It was winter, in Shvat. I went to his house and said, “Reb Mendel, you have to come.”

24:03 Speaker 3 You were like family at his house. Two knocks and you went in.

24:07 Speaker 1 I was close to him. I could go in to see him. But I said, “Reb Mendel, you have to come.” [unclear]

24:17 Speaker 3 Did he even understand what it was about? What—

24:19 Speaker 1 Oh, he was exceptionally astute.

24:22 Speaker 3 He already understood who was sitting there, what the issue was, and which way the wind was blowing.

24:25 Speaker 1 [Unclear] Liberson was sitting there. He told me, “I won’t stand on the same platform as them.”

24:35 Speaker 3 That far?

24:36 Speaker 1 That’s what he said. But he said, “I don’t have the strength.” How old would he have been then—ninety-two, ninety-three? “I don’t have the strength,” he said. I told him, “Reb Mendel, but this is something very, very, very, very important.” Well, I came back having failed in my mission. I told Lifshitz, “He’s not going.” Then I said, “Listen, Velvel Kesselman is his mashpia. Take Velvel and have him tell Reb Mendel to come. Then he won’t have a choice.” I went to Velvel’s house.

25:10 Speaker 3 How were you not worried about time? The meeting wasn’t going to last forever.

25:14 Speaker 1 Hakadosh Boruch Hu arranges the timing too.

25:18 Speaker 3 Okay.

25:19 Speaker 1 Anyway, you see what a chossid is. Who was I to Velvel Kesselman? He knew me a little. But when I told him, “I want you to come and tell Reb Mendel to come,” he didn’t ask any questions. He put on his coat and went. I drove him, and we went up to Reb Mendel. I told Reb Mendel that Velvel thought he should go. Reb Mendel looked at Velvel and said, “Velvel, du heist?” “You’re ordering me?” As if to say, “You...” I was afraid Velvel wouldn’t manage to say the word heist, so I whispered from behind into his ear, “Velvel, heist. Order him.” So he said, “Reb Mendel, heist.” That was the kabbolas ol of a chossid. It wasn’t that he felt he was doing something humble. That’s simply who he was. Anyway, I took Reb Mendel, and we arrived at Beis Rivkah. We were walking along the path, and at the end of it, outside, an activist was standing there talking on a cell phone—and I’m talking about thirty years ago.

26:34 Speaker 3 That was pretty modern, yes.

26:36 Speaker 1 A minute probably cost five shekels, I don’t know. And I heard him say in Yiddish,

26:43 Speaker 3 So, in general, to act against the community.

26:49 Speaker 1 “You stop them there, and I’ll stop them here.”

26:51 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

26:52 Speaker 1 Then he saw me walking with Reb Mendel toward the meeting. He understood what was happening. He realized, as they say, that his plan was finished—nobody was going to pull the wool over Reb Mendel’s eyes. So he said, “Malachim, Reb Mendel?” Reb Mendel said to him, “Malachim, malachim. Hello. I’ll give you two blessings.” He said, “Nu, nu.” So Reb Mendel said to him—he said—so Reb Mendel said to him,

27:32 Speaker 3 And that was the end of it.

27:33 Speaker 1 No, it wasn’t the end. Reb Mendel wasn’t in charge of the rabbis.

27:36 Speaker 3 No, I mean his exchange with the Chabad activist.

27:38 Speaker 1 Oh, that—what was—

27:38 Speaker 3 The answer was—

27:39 Speaker 1 Like a balloon. You know how a balloon with a hole in it shrivels up? That’s what it was like. Fine, we went in. By now I was invited. Reb Mendel came in, and then Michoel Halperin—I think it was Michoel Halperin, yes, the rabbi of Givat Tzofit—said, “Reb Mendel, you too?” So Reb Mendel said, “Why are you asking? What’s the doubt?” [Unclear.] “You’re afraid, so you don’t do it?” As if to say, what else could it be?

28:24 Speaker 3 He had some line about the most observant party, or something like that.

28:27 Speaker 1 At first he said that the Rebbe calls it “the most observant party.” So what doubt could there be? Then Michoel said that everyone is observant. What good does that do? So Reb Mendel said to him, “Michoel, measure yourself, measure yourself.” In other words. And then Reb Mendel said, “What are you afraid of? So you don’t do it?”

28:54 Speaker 3 Do you perhaps think the Rebbe is Moshiach?

28:57 Speaker 1 Yes, if it didn’t come out. “Don’t you understand? You’re worse than those Berlin intellectuals, the ‘Berlinchiks.’ One writes an essay, one writes a pilpul, and the third writes a book. We need to burn your writings.” He told me that they had asked him, “So, what do you say?” And he said, “The Rebbe says: the most charedi party.” In other words, to apply the instruction: the most charedi party. Then Michal [?] said to him, “The problem is that they’re all charedi.” So Reb Mendel told him, “No, Michal, no. Measure yourself.” And then he said, “We need to burn them.” What are you afraid of? Maybe not. You’re worse than the Berlin intellectuals—they called the intellectuals from Berlin “Berlinchiks.” What are you doing? You’re writing essays. One of you writes essays, another writes a pilpul, another writes a book. Your books and writings need to be burned. And I think that was the end of it. Everyone could see there was no point in sitting there anymore. After Reb Mendel said his piece, one of the rabbis began [unclear]. It was very much to the point.

30:32 Speaker 3 So, to conclude this part—do you think, from your perspective, that these things had an effect? That they were what led to...

30:43 Speaker 1 I have no doubt. I saw what was going on there beforehand. Representatives came from everywhere, very distinguished people, including leaders.

31:00 Speaker 3 And the satellite broadcast took place. You were at the broadcast in Kfar Chabad.

31:04 Speaker 1 There too—don’t worry—there too.

31:06 Speaker 3 It wasn’t simple there either. But from your perspective, when you watched the satellite broadcast, you were standing in [unclear] in Kfar Chabad. The Rebbe’s responses rose above everything else. The Rebbe came out and encouraged “Yechi.” These things were accepted and gathered momentum, and all of that.

31:20 Speaker 1 The fact that there was a broadcast definitely had an effect. Someone said, “For half an hour, I saw the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach.” That has an effect. What? Were you already saying “Yechi”? Not yet. Everyone who was there for “Yechi”—and even today, people who see footage or broadcasts of it. What? So I’m saying, we were modest. I was already in Crown Heights, and on Simchas Torah there were Jews there. I was at a meal with someone, and there were chassidim saying, “How do you know what the Rebbe means when he moves his head? Maybe the Rebbe means this, maybe the Rebbe means that?” And they said to me, “What, are you crazy? The Rebbe isn’t speaking to us, not to...” Oy vey, oy vey, oy vey. So that’s it... I laughed, and—

32:18 Speaker 3 That’s the same reaction you described from 5730—the two responses of chassidim on opposite sides of the divide. So there’s always the—

32:28 Speaker 1 Rabbi Shemtov and Rabbi Dvorkin.

32:41 Speaker 3 Let’s focus now on what came after the upheaval of 5753 and “Yechi Adoneinu,” when we reach the time of Gimmel Tammuz. The absolute belief in the Rebbe as Melech HaMoshiach, the message of the Geulah, that the Rebbe is with us, that the Rebbe is alive—all these things had been building. And it seems that at the very first moment of Gimmel Tammuz, that conviction was already in you. You mentioned what happened on the plane. Let’s hear a little about exactly what happened there.

33:15 Speaker 1 The plane was flying. It was full, completely full. The Rebbe’s niece was on it too.

33:22 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

33:23 Speaker 1 Rabbi Lau was there too. At some point after the plane began moving—I don’t remember when—Rabbi Lau got the microphone and began speaking. He said plainly, “Brothers, when a father passes away, G-d forbid, one of the most important things is to make sure there is no dispute, that this doesn’t happen and that doesn’t happen.” It was something of a eulogy.

33:48 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

33:50 Speaker 1 So I went to Aharonov. I told him, “Listen, things have been said here—Hashem should protect us. We need to say that the Rebbe is alive. The Rebbe writes about Gimmel Tammuz that it’s...” Anyway, Aharonov said to me, “So what? Ask for the microphone and tell them.” I said, “I need a microphone.” He went and got one. He told him to go to [unclear]. I don’t remember.

34:16 Speaker 3 So Rabbi Aharonov got you the microphone, arranged for you to use the plane’s—

34:19 Speaker 1 The plane’s microphone.

34:20 Speaker 3 So you could speak about that moment for a chossid at that time.

34:24 Speaker 1 What is Gimmel Tammuz? So I said that the Rebbe had said long before that Gimmel Tammuz is a festival, a day of Geulah, and “Sun, stand still over Givon.” It doesn’t necessarily have to fit our understanding, but that’s what the Rebbe says. That was more or less the point I made. And I think I also said: if you hear the news and a minute later you hear the Rebbe say otherwise, whom will you believe? I’m not saying you can understand it. You don’t have to understand it; you have to believe it. That’s it.

35:00 Speaker 3 Not too many words. Just a moment of simple faith that—

35:04 Speaker 1 I spoke and spoke. I think it came from the heart. I don’t know. A few minutes. Afterward, I went around with mashke. I don’t remember who was with me, but it was one of the Zeitlins.

35:21 Speaker 3 You went around handing out mashke on the plane.

35:23 Speaker 1 Yes. They served a meal, so we served mashke too. And we sang “Yechi Adoneinu”—I and whoever it was with me. We kept singing, and the fellows in the back got annoyed. They wanted to sleep, and...

35:37 Speaker 3 Oh.

35:38 Speaker 1 And the mashke reached them. They said, “Are you crazy? Mashke? What is this? Have you eaten the compote?”

35:46 Speaker 3 Meaning, they were asking why you were handing out l’chaim. What did l’chaim have to do with the situation?

35:50 Speaker 1 On the contrary, it was as if you were making light of the situation.

35:55 Speaker 3 What did you answer?

35:55 Speaker 1 I asked them whether they had eaten the compote. Do you know what compote is?

35:59 Speaker 3 Dessert.

36:00 Speaker 1 Dessert. They were [unclear] enough to tell me yes. So I told them, “This mashke is much less tasty than that.” Afterward I went to Reb Mendel. I told him what the situation was and what I had said. “I didn’t ask you beforehand, but what do you say?”

36:22 Speaker 3 About the l’chaim.

36:23 Speaker 1 The l’chaim, and what we had said about today being a day of Geulah. So he told me, “Kopchik [?], you’re right,” but then said [unclear]. Where is the balance? In any case, for me that was enough.

36:44 Speaker 3 So he gave you a certain balance.

36:47 Speaker 1 Balance. “Weeping is lodged in my heart on one side, and...”

36:55 Speaker 3 “Joy is lodged in my heart.”

36:56 Speaker 1 “Joy is lodged in my heart on the other side.” So he wasn’t saying there shouldn’t be joy.

37:01 Speaker 3 And from there, in the period after Gimmel Tammuz—

37:05 Speaker 1 When we arrived—

37:05 Speaker 3 Go on.

37:08 Speaker 1 We saw the situation. It was [unclear]. So we decided to go around—Dovid Nachshon and I—and we went around constantly, without stopping, saying “Yechi” after every minyan, because in the minyanim it was hardly being said at all. So for three days—

37:32 Speaker 3 You took it on as a job to say “Yechi” at the end of every minyan.

37:35 Speaker 1 Yes. And three days later, I had no voice.

37:39 Speaker 3 Completely hoarse.

37:40 Speaker 1 Yes. On Motzaei Shabbos there was a gathering, a meeting. All the Chabad rabbis in the area were there. They spoke and spoke and spoke, and I knew I had to proclaim “Yechi” after the last speech, but—

37:59 Speaker 3 You had no voice.

38:01 Speaker 1 I managed to get out some sort of croak, and an Israeli-American immediately came at me. “What’s this? You’re going against the rabbis? Didn’t you hear what the rabbis said?” I told him, “I certainly heard. I didn’t hear any prohibition against saying ‘Yechi.’” I caught hold of one of the rabbis who was more flexible, brought him over, and said, “He says you said it’s forbidden to say ‘Yechi.’” “What are you talking about? What are you talking about? What are you talking about?”

38:31 Speaker 3 But the direction was clear. You understood that in a situation like this, with chassidim at a crossroads, those who were strong had to stand firm, share that faith, and plant something good among everyone.

38:43 Speaker 1 Yes. And boruch Hashem, we traveled in 5755.

38:48 Speaker 3 Before that.

38:48 Speaker 1 Part of it.

38:49 Speaker 3 Ah, okay.

38:52 Speaker 1 What do you mean?

38:52 Speaker 3 I mean before the trip—strengthening that faith among chassidim. You can see it in the gatherings that were held in Eretz Yisroel at the Cinerama [?], the other gatherings, and the activists’ conference. They always strengthened and encouraged the chassidim to do more and more through the association. You were prominently involved there. What was the atmosphere like?

39:17 Speaker 1 I was about to say, “Maybe they’ll let me speak.” Just kidding.

39:22 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

39:24 Speaker 1 No one should say [unclear]. There are people who see this person and that person, and realize: we’re not alone.

39:31 Speaker 3 Even looking back, that was important for strengthening the faith.

39:37 Speaker 1 One thing I see is that every generation has its leaders.

39:41 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

39:41 Speaker 1 So in every period there was someone who carried the banner, carried the torch. I think Zimroni [?] was one; he still doesn’t want to pass on the torch. But there was a period when Yisroel Alpergan [?] led the effort. To this day, he shared a secret with me that I won’t tell anyone. Now he’s already—

40:07 Speaker 3 Well, maybe now’s the time to tell it.

40:09 Speaker 1 [Unclear]—he paid for it and funded the whole thing.

40:13 Speaker 3 He tells us [unclear].

40:15 Speaker 1 Now you see Moshiach signs on the streets, on the bridges. You see them?

40:23 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

40:23 Speaker 1 Where did that come from? He didn’t want people to know. No, no, no, you shouldn’t do that just because he didn’t want to, as though you’re picking a fight with [unclear].

40:33 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

40:33 Speaker 1 And he was [unclear].

40:36 Speaker 3 So those gatherings, and the times you spent together, strengthened you in a certain sense. Later it became clear how important that was, how necessary it was in order to go out there, to head to the front with strong support behind you, as they say.

40:52 Speaker 1 That hasn’t happened yet. It still hasn’t been revealed.

40:56 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. And that brings us to 5746. You realize you want to take the next step, to go out on the Rebbe’s shlichus and travel to India. How did that happen? Let’s focus the second half of the program on this point: the shlichus of welcoming Moshiach. Where did the idea of suddenly going to India come from?

41:31 Speaker 1 In 5748, the year of building, we did something. The Rebbe’s general instruction was both to build a Chabad House everywhere and for everyone to buy a home of their own. And the Rebbe, um, in the end, mentioned it at the farbrengen every Shabbos. [unclear], [unclear], [unclear]. The Rebbe saw that the chassidim were dragging their feet. He wanted to make them wealthy, but they, uh... So the Rebbe announced that he would give a hundred dollars to anyone who made an addition or a purchase or something like that. I wanted to give the Rebbe nachas, so I made three concrete steps here, from the window to make a [unclear], and some silly little attic space here. Today I walk around the south and see blocks and blocks and blocks that they couldn’t sell for pennies.

42:26 Speaker 3 Wow.

42:27 Speaker 1 Five thousand dollars per block. You could pay the mortgage afterward. There were eighteen times thirty there—fifty-four apartments. I could have married off all my children. So I wrote to the Rebbe: well, I’m doing something, I’m doing it. The Rebbe sent a hundred dollars. The Rebbe is kind.

42:45 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

42:46 Speaker 1 But in any case, I was thinking about what I could do in terms of building a Chabad House. So I surveyed the surrounding communities. Rosh Pina was the closest and the most challenging. So, uh—

43:01 Speaker 3 In terms of its left-wing population, uh—

43:04 Speaker 1 Yes, established.

43:05 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

43:08 Speaker 1 That was it. So I had some involvement there. Later I rented a house, and people came with spray paint at night and wrote, “You can’t turn Rosh Pina into Mea Shearim.” And Kfar Chabad—

43:27 Speaker 3 There weren’t any charedim at all in Rosh Pina, as in, it was—

43:30 Speaker 1 There was the rabbi. He was a fellow I had studied with earlier in a Litvish yeshiva.

43:35 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

43:41 Speaker 1 And... Kfar Chabad printed it on its front page, the—

43:45 Speaker 3 That weekly?

43:46 Speaker 1 The, the—

43:48 Speaker 3 What was written.

43:49 Speaker 1 That quote, and a picture of the Rebbe walking with it to the Ohel. It’s sticking out of his pocket, with the front showing. The Rebbe is walking with a paper bag, like this.

43:58 Speaker 3 Yes, yes.

43:59 Speaker 1 So it was really halfway out.

44:01 Speaker 3 And how do you get from all that to what came next? The Rosh Pina Chabad House was established; there’s already another shliach there. Forgive me, but how do we get to India?

44:08 Speaker 1 For various reasons. In Rosh Pina, I handed it over to Levi Yitzchak [unclear]; it closed. Then we’re sitting here, thinking about what to do. At that point I had a Chabad House without a building, without a place. Later we opened a preschool, so we needed a place and rented one there. And... one day, one of the people who attended a class—at the time he didn’t yet observe mitzvos—came by. Today the whole family does; the children are married already, I think all of them, no? So he came and brought me, uh, a videotape. There’s no such thing today, but it was a recording of a program broadcast on television on Friday night. It had a report about Pune. Suddenly the cameraman sees a young man in a red ashram robe, with his tzitzis hanging out. So he asks him, “What are you doing here?” He says, “I came to tell them that... the ashram might be very nice, but we have Hakadosh Boruch Hu, we have Torah. And... and the Rebbe, King Mosh— the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach.” That’s what he said.

45:25 Speaker 3 That Israeli young man.

45:26 Speaker 1 Yes.

45:27 Speaker 3 Not religious.

45:29 Speaker 1 And at the end of the report, the reporter makes a play on words: “On Purim, they’re waiting for the Rebbe.”

45:36 Speaker 3 Wow. And through hashgachah pratis, you receive this report.

45:41 Speaker 1 Right. So, uh, first I went to— They asked him, “Where are you from?” “Kiryat Motzkin.” I phoned the Chabad House there. “Do you know someone named [unclear]?” “Yes, we know him.” “I want to, uh, meet him.” I met him and asked, “Tell me, where... what?” He drew me a map of the area: where to buy mashke, where this was, where that was. And, and—

46:05 Speaker 3 He introduced you to Pune.

46:06 Speaker 1 Yes.

46:08 Speaker 3 And did you decide to travel alone first to get to know the place, or were you already thinking of going with the family?

46:12 Speaker 1 No, not with the family. On my own.

46:15 Speaker 3 So at first, that initial trip—

46:18 Speaker 1 Waiting for the Rebbe? Waiting for the Rebbe.

46:20 Speaker 3 You arrive. The Rebbe [unclear], and you board a plane for India and land there in South Asia, in Pune.

46:30 Speaker 1 But I traveled with someone.

46:31 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

46:33 Speaker 1 “And with joy—success in fulfilling your mission. Go, gather all the Jews, and explain to them that they belong to the people of Mordechai, who will neither kneel nor bow down to any idol worship.”

46:44 Speaker 3 That was the Rebbe’s response as you were setting out for India. You arrive in India and write to the Rebbe, and receive an encouraging response specifically for Purim.

46:55 Speaker 1 Before the trip.

46:56 Speaker 3 Even before the trip, you’re preparing for a Purim mivtza in India.

47:00 Speaker 1 Yes.

47:00 Speaker 3 A focused one. You arrive in India—is there some field of activity you can work in, or—

47:05 Speaker 1 All the Israelis who came to the ashram suddenly find Chabad, suddenly find Purim, suddenly find all this.

47:11 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

47:12 Speaker 1 Okay. When I came back, I started making trips for short stretches. Purim was one trip; then there was Tishrei.

47:21 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

47:21 Speaker 1 In short, my wife says to me, “Look, you travel there, come back, raise money, travel again, travel to America, raise money—it’s not much fun.” Then she suggested, “Maybe we should all go together with the children? At least you’ll save on that part of the travel to— to India.”

47:45 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. So in 5768, you actually arrive in Pune to run the Chabad House.

47:54 Speaker 1 As a family.

47:56 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. And there you begin a shlichus devoted to welcoming Moshiach Tzidkeinu, a place that brings the light of spreading the wellsprings, Chassidus that is, of course, permeated with Moshiach. Is the message received? Do people accept the idea?

48:09 Speaker 1 One day I get a phone call from a café: they found my ID. I go to the closet to check whether my passport and ID card are there. Yes. All right, so I rush over to see what it is. It’s a picture of the Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach.

48:27 Speaker 3 Wow.

48:27 Speaker 1 So, in their Indian imagination...

48:30 Speaker 3 They made the connection. But the basic idea—the Israelis who become close to Chabad come to the Chabad House and want to hear about it.

48:39 Speaker 1 So what do you want to know?

48:40 Speaker 3 The message of welcoming Moshiach.

48:45 Speaker 1 Here’s one example. You could fill volumes—volumes of stories. But one has stayed with us. A woman came from Florida, an artist, a painter, and I think she left us a portrait of the Rebbe that she painted. In any case, she said, “The Rebbe was”—in the past tense. So I told her, “The Rebbe wasn’t. The Rebbe is here.” She said, “What do you mean?” I told her, “Literally. That’s what I mean.” “Wow, so wonderful. That’s so wonderful. Why didn’t the Chabad House I go to tell me that?” I said, “Ask them.” That’s it, just an example.

49:29 Speaker 3 But more fully, when you sit with someone and try to convey the idea of accepting his kingship and so on—did you have the words to say it to him if...?

49:39 Speaker 1 Look, we try. It says—Rabbi Shimon Chaim [unclear] used to say that there are farbrengens where... it works, and there are farbrengens where it doesn’t work. A mashpia tries and it doesn’t work. So he said we have to learn from Bilam. He tried to curse from here; it didn’t work. He tried to curse from there; it didn’t work. Maybe he could curse from here—no... He didn’t give up. You try again. In the end...

50:07 Speaker 3 In the end it yields; in the end it sinks in. So that’s the establishment of the Chabad House and its ongoing work on the shlichus of welcoming Moshiach. What’s interesting is that, as a shliach in those years—and I’ll go back a few years too—you come to the International Kinus Hashluchim and meet other shluchim. Naturally, some shluchim keep the absence of a home and [unclear] more prominently in mind, and others less so. Did you get to talk about these subjects, or...?

50:37 Speaker 1 What else would we talk about? Pizza? What? It’s usually the subject. It’s... Today, you have to remember that twenty years ago it was a problem. Today there are no problems.

50:56 Speaker 3 What do you mean?

50:57 Speaker 1 Even those who are called—or were called back then—“anti” can accept it now. And it keeps growing. We traveled in 5755?

51:12 Speaker 3 5755 was a Hakhel year.

51:14 Speaker 1 So we went as a family. Three or four families came. Dovid Nachshon was with... We came with all the children, and people told us afterward how much of an effect it had on them. So there are things you do without even knowing; you don’t do them—

51:30 Speaker 3 But they have an effect.

51:31 Speaker 1 Yes.

51:31 Speaker 3 And today you can see how full and packed it all is, and how it grows from year to year.

51:36 Speaker 1 You can really see the...

51:39 Speaker 3 Not just in that—in the whole subject of Moshiach.

51:41 Speaker 1 Yes, of course.

51:44 Speaker 3 Since we’re talking about the Kinus Hashluchim, there’s a very interesting episode from the 5752 Kinus Hashluchim, at a session in Oholei Torah. What exactly happened there?

51:58 Speaker 1 There was an open question-and-answer session, where anyone could get up and speak, like Hyde Park. There were people on both sides. Everyone had their say: one said this, another said that. So I asked for permission to speak and said, “Friends, I’m listening to everyone who comes up to speak, and you’re all serious people. One says this drives people away, and another says it doesn’t drive people away—it brings them closer.”

52:31 Speaker 4 In other words, it was a much-discussed issue: does the subject of Moshiach bring people closer or drive them away? What do we do as shluchim?

52:39 Speaker 1 I said, “Why should I...? Are they both blind? Are they both liars? How does that work?”

52:45 Speaker 4 You can’t disagree about the facts on the ground.

52:46 Speaker 1 I said, “Of course. He has to worry about raising money, so Moshiach gets in the way. The other one isn’t concerned with money. He gives classes, puts tefillin on with people, kashers kitchens. No.”

53:05 Speaker 4 What does that tell us?

53:07 Speaker 1 That money is needed.

53:10 Speaker 4 Well, if money is needed, then there’s no Moshiach.

53:12 Speaker 1 There’s a story about Rabbi Levi Yitzchak of Berditchev. When he arrived in the town of Berditchev, I think, he made a rule that no preacher could speak. In those days there were preachers, maggidim, who would threaten people with Gehinnom and the like. Once, a maggid who spoke there every year arrived, and suddenly the gabba’im told him, “No. You can’t.” “What do you mean, I can’t? This is my livelihood. It’s how I buy food for my children afterward.” “If you want, go speak to the rabbi.” So he went to the rabbi and explained his situation. The rabbi asked him, “Do you promise not to curse anyone?” “I promise.” The time for the sermon came. At first he really managed to restrain himself, but then he went back to his old habit and began cursing. The Jews were frightened. They sent the shamash to call the rabbi: the maggid was cursing them. The rabbi came to the shul, banged on the bimah, opened the aron kodesh and said, “Master of the Universe, don’t listen to him. He doesn’t really mean it. He only means to make money.”

54:28 Speaker 4 And there’s the innermost point of every Jew, and there’s the...

54:31 Speaker 1 Okay.

54:31 Speaker 4 The same is true with matters of Moshiach.

54:33 Speaker 1 Exactly. That isn’t what they really mean. I remember there were rabbis on both sides. Three rabbis—Yershpung[unclear], Hendel, and... Pavenier[unclear] from France—stood on the three steps of the bimah holding Torah scrolls. It was on Simchas Torah, and all three proclaimed “Yechi Adoneinu” to give it that kind of authority.

55:11 Speaker 4 You’re talking about Tishrei 5753.

55:13 Speaker 1 Apparently, yes. Later I heard that Pavenier[unclear] was wavering. I told him, “I saw you standing before the Rebbe with a Torah scroll in your hand, together with two other rabbis, and all of you proclaimed ‘Yechi Adoneinu.’” He said to me, “Ah, it was Simchas Torah. What can I tell you? What could I say—no?” The only one who stood firm with us the whole time was Rabbi Marlow.

55:46 Speaker 4 Looking back at all these things, to sum it up: we’ve spoken about what was new in those extraordinary years, about 5753, about “Yechi,” about the satellite broadcast, about everything that went on behind the scenes as you described, and about the pure faith after Gimmel Tammuz 5754—carrying the banner proudly and the mission of welcoming Moshiach. So today, as Temimim, as soldiers of Beis Dovid, how do we keep that fire burning in the right way and channel it in the right direction?

56:19 Speaker 1 The main thing is action. I feel awkward talking about it, but I’ll tell you about my son. He... By the way, this came up with Yisroel Alperin a long, long time ago, but it didn’t catch on, as they say. I don’t know where my son got it, whether he heard it somewhere or it came to him through ruach hakodesh: when you get on a bus, you have to say something from the Rebbe. Back then they called it “every bus.”

56:46 Speaker 4 Not only when you’re prepared.

56:47 Speaker 1 Yes, okay, but as a general approach. So he tells me, “It’s hard for me every single time.” But he starts picturing himself standing before the Rebbe. What would he tell the Rebbe? He’d feel embarrassed.

57:05 Speaker 4 So a big yasher koach to Rabbi Kupchik. With Hashem’s help, may these words have their effect. Words that come from the heart enter the heart.

57:11 Speaker 1 I’m all for it. Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu VeRabbeinu Melech HaMoshiach Leolam Vaed. L’chaim, l’chaim.

57:16 Speaker 4 L’chaim, and long live the King. A big yasher koach, Rabbi Kupchik.

57:19 Speaker 5 Ears to Hear. Audio programs for the Temimim from the Or Yomi website. For more programs, dial star 6358. Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu VeRabbeinu Melech HaMoshiach Leolam Vaed.