Lehisraanen Episode 20: Rabbi Sholom Dovber Lobkowski (Kfar Chabad)

00:00 Speaker 1 Sholom aleichem. Welcome to another episode of the podcast Lehisra’anein, where chassidim share memories of life at 770 from the times they spent with the Rebbe, refreshing and enlivening our connection to him. This time we’ll sit down with the chossid Rabbi Sholom Ber Levkovsky of Kfar Chabad, head of the kollel in Kfar Chabad for the Rebbe’s shluchim in the Holy Land. He merited to be with the Rebbe in the fifties, and before that grew up in the chassidic atmosphere of Brunoy among elder chassidim. He’ll share both his family’s memories and his own: his experiences among the chassidim, how they later came to the Rebbe, his studies at 770, and especially his shlichus in the Holy Land. He merited to serve as a channel for conveying the Rebbe’s instructions and carrying out the Rebbe’s mivtzoim in Jerusalem and later in Kfar Chabad. Rabbi Levkovsky is full of experiences and stories. In this episode we’ll hear just some of them, and, with Hashem’s help, there will be another opportunity to hear more. Good evening, Rabbi Levkovsky.

01:01 Speaker 2 Good evening.

01:02 Speaker 1 Well, let’s start with the question we ask everyone: Fun vanet shtamt ir—where do you come from? You, your family.

01:11 Speaker 2 Shall we start with my parents?

01:12 Speaker 1 Yes.

01:14 Speaker 2 My father was born—well, his father was from Nevel and was a teacher there, but my father was born in Krukhov, near Moscow.

01:25 Speaker 1 Your grandfather?

01:26 Speaker 2 My father.

01:26 Speaker 1 Ah. And what was your grandfather’s name?

01:28 Speaker 2 Yisroel Levkovsky.

01:29 Speaker 1 Yisroel.

01:31 Speaker 2 And he grew up in Chabad, of course, and studied in the yeshiva in Kharkov. He was in the same class as Reb Mendel Vinkler, from Krukhov. Who else was in that class? A class of chassidim.

01:50 Speaker 1 You say “in Chabad, of course”—how many generations back does your family go in Chabad?

01:55 Speaker 2 His father was a Chabad chossid.

01:57 Speaker 1 Do you know about anyone before him?

01:59 Speaker 2 That still needs to be looked into. They’ve now found something about a Levkovsky who was also head of a kollel in the Alter Rebbe’s time. Some want to say there was a connection with the Alter Rebbe’s family too, but that isn’t established. It’s something new that has only just come up.

02:22 Speaker 1 In any case, he studied in Kharkov. What years was that, for your father?

02:27 Speaker 2 The years, I don’t know.

02:28 Speaker 1 No, I mean, [unclear]. He wasn’t in Lubavitch.

02:31 Speaker 2 He wasn’t in [unclear] with Lubavitch; he was very young. His brother traveled to the Rebbe Rashab but was afraid to take him because he was a little boy, and in those days children were taken off trains and kidnapped. So he didn’t merit to be with the Rebbe Rashab, but he was with the Frierdiker Rebbe. Later, as a young man, he became deeply involved in the underground—in Moscow, at the shul, and also in Yekaterinoslav, with Rabbi Levik. My brother Yisroel, in [unclear], during a vacation, went one Purim with Dovid Raskin. Rabbi Dovid Raskin read the Megillah for Rebbetzin Chana, and she knew Dovid Raskin. So she asked my brother, “Who are you?” He said, “I’m Yisroel Levkovsky.” She said that they had known a Levkovsky who was a very refined Jew, and that her husband, Rabbi Levik, had helped him, and so on. My brother was so excited that he said, “He must be from the Levkovsky family—the same family.” When he left, it dawned on him that she had been talking about my father.

03:59 Speaker 1 In other words, Rebbetzin Chana was speaking about your father, Reb Nochum.

04:02 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. My father used to go hear him every Motzaei Shabbos, and they would say VeYiten Lecha together from the siddur.

04:12 Speaker 1 There in Yekaterinoslav.

04:13 Speaker 2 Yes. And he wouldn’t let him leave until he’d had something hot to drink.

04:18 Speaker 1 A cup of tea.

04:19 Speaker 2 A cup of tea, a cup of coffee—I don’t know what they had there then. And my father moved from place to place, in Vitebsk and other towns, and in Yekaterinoslav.

04:38 Speaker 1 In Ukraine.

04:38 Speaker 2 Ukraine, and he was also in Russia. Now, when the possibility of leaving Russia began to develop, there was [unclear]. They didn’t know what the Frierdiker Rebbe’s position was.

04:53 Speaker 1 You mean after the war, [unclear]?

04:55 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. They’d found a way out: someone with Polish papers could cross the border. Of course, there was bribery involved too, and they made Polish passports so people could leave Russia. But what was the Frierdiker Rebbe’s position? They didn’t know. There was [unclear]. We can’t go into the whole story now, but my father’s approach was to sit tight and do nothing. He asked the Frierdiker Rebbe but received no answer. A handwritten note has now been found showing that the Frierdiker Rebbe did tell him to leave, but at the time he didn’t have that answer. So Reb Mendel told him, “Do what I’m doing. Send your wife and children, and afterward we’ll leave together.” But my father was very—how do you put it?—he was very much a man of halachah, a man—

06:01 Speaker 1 Strictly—

06:02 Speaker 2 A man of halachah. Reb Mendel told me that back in the Kharkov yeshiva, on the long winter nights, after supper the students divided into three groups. One group debated halachah, and, he said, your father was among them. Then there was a group of [unclear], and a group of chassidim who [unclear]. “I was with the [unclear],” Reb Mendel said. We should learn about that side of Reb Mendel too.

06:30 Speaker 1 Just a second—you mentioned a wife and children. When did your father get married?

06:34 Speaker 2 My father got married in 5701, I think.

06:38 Speaker 1 Where?

06:38 Speaker 2 Or 5700. In Georgia, in Kutaisi.

06:43 Speaker 1 To whom? What family was she from?

06:45 Speaker 2 The Levkovker family [unclear]. The Frierdiker Rebbe said that the Levkovkers had good daughters and one could marry them. So my father married one of the daughters, and two sons were born to them in Russia. The older one, my brother Yisroel, was born in Moscow, and Zalman was born in Tashkent, because they had fled to Tashkent as well, and so on.

07:15 Speaker 1 So he’s there with a wife and two sons, and he doesn’t know what to do. He wants to leave Russia.

07:19 Speaker 2 No, he thought it was better to sit tight and do nothing. But my mother, thinking about leaving, reckoned that it couldn’t be any worse than Russia. And my father was a target because he had been spreading Yiddishkeit.

07:40 Speaker 1 Involved in Yiddishkeit.

07:41 Speaker 2 Yes. So she decided they had to leave. She knew my father wouldn’t let her go alone, a woman with two children. You can imagine the stories. So she told him, “If you don’t come, I’m going on my own.” Of course, he joined her. Now, they had no papers. The activists there told them that if they gave the elder Rabbi [unclear] Rabinitsky a ride to the train station, and took the bag with all the forged passports there too, they would find places on the papers for him, his wife, and their two children so they could leave. So they went to pick up Rabbi [unclear] Rabinitsky. He got in and started shouting that his passport had expired. My mother told him, “Whether your passport has expired or not, that isn’t even a passport anymore, you…” But he wouldn’t let it go. They saw they might miss the train, so they went on. Then the police had set up a roadblock and were checking every car. My father pictured the Rebbe, but he told my mother, “You’ve put me in the fire,” because if they were caught, it was [unclear]. He really pictured the Rebbe’s face—and they waved their car through without checking it.

09:31 Speaker 4 “Go on.”

09:31 Speaker 2 “Go on.” That was the first miracle. When they arrived, by the way, there was another example of how much my father was a man of halachah. They wanted to list him on the papers with some other woman, and my mother with another man. He wouldn’t agree, until they found another way. Now, everyone tore up their kesubos, because the kesubah said they had married in Russia, while their passports said they were Polish. The fear was so great that they tore up their kesubos. It took strength. But my father was very much a man of halachah, a G-d-fearing Jew, and—

10:08 Speaker 4 A halachic authority.

10:08 Speaker 2 A halachic authority. So although he was afraid, he hid his kesubah carefully, and he was the only one who got out with his original kesubah. We still have it. And once everyone crossed the border, they sat down to—

10:22 Speaker 4 Write kesubos.

10:22 Speaker 2 Write new kesubos, yes. That’s by the way. From there they traveled to Lviv; from Lviv they reached Poland, and from Poland, Austria. They spent a year in Austria, and from Austria, through the Joint and [unclear], they reached France, Paris.

10:45 Speaker 4 So they weren’t in Pocking; they were in Austria.

10:48 Speaker 2 No, they were in Austria. There was a group there, after all. Sholom Chaim was in Austria too—what was the place called? Was it called [unclear], in Austria?

10:57 Speaker 4 What?

10:57 Speaker 2 [Unclear], [unclear]. Anyway, there was a small group there. The larger group, with Rabbi Litzman, was in—

11:03 Speaker 4 Pocking.

11:04 Speaker 2 Pocking. And that’s how they arrived. Sholom Chaim was the mashpia before Rabbi Shimon Bruno [unclear]. There was a room that, even in my time, was called Sholom Chaim Shimon.

11:16 Speaker 4 Wait, so—

11:17 Speaker 2 Now—

11:18 Speaker 4 They traveled through Austria, and then they were in Austria for—how long was it?

11:21 Speaker 2 A year.

11:21 Speaker 4 A year.

11:22 Speaker 2 A year and a bit, well...

11:23 Speaker 4 No, I mean a year of—no, first let’s say—

11:25 Speaker 2 A year, more or less a year, maybe two. After that they arrived in Brunoy, and my father—

11:30 Speaker 4 And there was an instruction from the Frierdiker Rebbe.

11:32 Speaker 2 Yes, that’s how it was. All the refugees came and established a yeshiva. My father was the mashgiach there. Reb Shlomo Chaim was the mashpia.

11:38 Speaker 4 One second, let’s not get ahead of ourselves. The whole group from Austria moved together to Brunoy, though some of them also went to Eretz Yisroel or to the United States.

11:46 Speaker 2 Some went to Eretz Yisroel, some to the United States.

11:48 Speaker 4 Right. So each person in the group from Austria received a different instruction.

11:51 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes.

11:51 Speaker 4 And your father, Reb Shlomo Chaim and others were instructed to go to—

11:54 Speaker 2 Rabbi Sholom Trebnik was there.

11:56 Speaker 4 To go to Brunoy.

11:58 Speaker 2 To the yeshiva, yes. But afterward my father’s aspiration was to travel to the Rebbe. So they prepared the paperwork—the Joint prepared their paperwork—and they already had green cards and tickets to travel. If I’m not mistaken, that was already in [unclear], or maybe later. I need to check the dates; I don’t... They already had tickets, and they asked the Rebbe for a bracha for the flight.

12:27 Speaker 4 From France to the United States.

12:28 Speaker 2 To the Rebbe, yes. So the Rebbe—our Rebbe—answered, “The bracha is that he should remain in France and have nachas, materially and spiritually, from his children,” and he hoped those words would be enough for them. Of course, my father didn’t budge. He didn’t budge, didn’t budge.

12:47 Speaker 4 I want to go back a moment, just a moment. They arrived in Brunoy and began establishing the community there, in that little place called Brunoy.

12:57 Speaker 2 Yes.

12:58 Speaker 4 Who was there? Which families were in Brunoy?

13:00 Speaker 2 Well, as I told you, there was Rabbi Shlomo Chaim, my father, Rabbi Nochum Trebnik was there. Who else was there? I don’t know...

13:09 Speaker 4 And afterward Reb Nissan began to arrive.

13:11 Speaker 2 Wait, wait, I think it was a year later. There was [unclear], and Reb Nissan arrived, and Reb Nissan wasn’t so eager to travel to Eretz Yisroel. And Chaykel Chanin—that’s what I heard. I don’t remember these things myself, because I was a child, a baby. Various things happened, and since Reb Nissan was the mainstay of the group, and so on, it worked out that Rabbi Shlomo Chaim traveled to Eretz Yisroel and Reb Nissan stayed in France. And that’s how my father stayed in France. Of course, the Joint was very upset.

13:52 Speaker 4 Because the Joint wanted everyone to travel.

13:53 Speaker 2 No, they had made the arrangements. The Joint helped Jews get settled in the United States.

13:58 Speaker 4 Ah, so they wanted your father to go to the United States because there was a place—

14:01 Speaker 2 Yes, they’d already arranged the tickets. They already had tickets.

14:03 Speaker 4 And the Rebbe tells him, “Stay in France.”

14:05 Speaker 2 They had arranged green cards, everything. Then someone told me he’d found a letter in which the Rebbe writes to Yunger Datsky [unclear] that he hopes he’ll sort out the arrangements concerning the Levkovsky family with the Joint.

14:23 Speaker 4 So that the Joint wouldn’t—

14:24 Speaker 2 Because apparently they were upset about this whole affair. Maybe that’s what it was about.

14:30 Speaker 4 When were you born?

14:33 Speaker 2 I was born in 5703.

14:34 Speaker 4 5703.

14:34 Speaker 2 Yes.

14:36 Speaker 4 What was your father’s role in the yeshiva?

14:41 Speaker 2 My father did whatever was needed. He was the mashgiach, gave shiurim, looked after the bochurim. At times they wanted him to do this or that. He was a jack-of-all-trades, as they say.

14:54 Speaker 4 A spiritual jack-of-all-trades.

14:55 Speaker 2 Yes. I was told two beautiful stories about his influence and his dedication to the Temimim. There was a Jew here in Kfar Chabad named Rubin Kaminetsky. They called him Rubaleh. Sholom Ber Noitig [unclear] told me that Rubaleh was—

15:14 Speaker 4 Of Ber Goldo [unclear].

15:15 Speaker 2 Yes. He said, “After your father gave him mussar, it affected him for a week.” Even—

15:24 Speaker 4 Meaning, he knew how to reach each person in his own way, even the ones with strong temperaments.

15:28 Speaker 2 If he didn’t succeed, he would start crying.

15:31 Speaker 4 Your father.

15:32 Speaker 2 Yes. And Korf from Miami told me—he was the father of—

15:38 Speaker 4 Of Rabbi Ruby.

15:39 Speaker 2 Rabbi Ruby Korf [unclear] told me—I once met him at the mikveh—and he said, “Your father once gave me mussar. He told me, ‘You have to learn. If you don’t learn, what will become of you? You’ll turn out like me.’” Yes, that’s—

15:56 Speaker 4 A chossid’s mussar.

15:56 Speaker 2 That’s what it means to be a Jewish chossid, yes.

15:59 Speaker 4 What’s your earliest memory of Brunoy?

16:03 Speaker 2 You mean childhood memories. We grew up—

16:07 Speaker 4 Yes.

16:07 Speaker 2 It was like this. We lived inside the yeshiva. The yeshiva was a château, a sort of little palace, and until 5729 the families lived inside the yeshiva. Just imagine the facilities: there were two toilets.

16:26 Speaker 4 Two bathrooms.

16:28 Speaker 2 And there were bochurim and families and women. For example, our living room on the second floor—I remember it also had two beds. Those were my parents’ beds, and they gave shiurim there. My father gave a shiur right in the living room, and the kitchen was in the hallway. Each family had its own kitchen area in the hallway: a little kitchenette, a stove—not an oven, a stovetop to cook on—and a cupboard underneath. I still remember that cupboard. Reb Nissan also had a room, and as more children were born, they gave us another room. We lived in unbelievable cramped conditions until, in 5729, the non-Jews built four apartments in the yeshiva courtyard. Upstairs were us and Reb Nissan; downstairs were Goldberg, one of the heads of the yeshiva, and Klemenson, who taught the children in cheder. That was the yeshiva staff.

17:40 Speaker 4 And there you had more room.

17:42 Speaker 2 Certainly. Our apartment was the biggest. It had a living room, with four small rooms off it, a tiny kitchenette and a balcony. So we got the biggest apartment. Reb Nissan, across from us, had two rooms, and there was Goldberg. Below us there were also two rooms.

18:11 Speaker 4 According to the size of the family.

18:12 Speaker 2 Yes. Klemenson also had two or three. That’s what I remember. After a few years they even put up a sort of partition, a little wooden fence. After all, the families were growing, and there were bochurim there.

18:27 Speaker 4 To give them a little more privacy.

18:28 Speaker 2 Privacy.

18:29 Speaker 4 What about Chassidic memories? What were the Yamim Nora’im like? We’re coming up to the Yamim Nora’im now. What was it like for you?

18:36 Speaker 2 The Yamim Nora’im. Rosh Hashanah there was very serious. First of all, they had overnight shifts saying Tehillim, and people would stand—it was the Day of Judgment, so they stood. I remember when I came in 5728, then on Rosh Hashanah 5730 I made a point of standing. By the last prayer, I really felt dizzy from all the pushing. Rosh Hashanah was very serious, and...

19:18 Speaker 4 Was there a close, family-like bond among the chassidim there?

19:24 Speaker 2 Yes. Reb Nissan conveyed more of a sense of—how should I put it—yirah. I heard that Sholom Ber was more about chessed. Reb Nissan was more about gevurah. But there was, for example—you’re talking about looking out for one another—there was also hardship. Before Sukkos, those four families would jointly buy three lulavim and three esrogim, choosing the most beautiful lulav and the most beautiful esrog. My father would choose the lulav. One set was for the adults. Of course, [unclear] would make the bracha; Reb Nissan would make the bracha afterward, then the heads of the yeshiva and the kohen. My father would defer to the others. Another lulav was for the women and children, and another was for shaking during davening, so there would be an extra lulav. For years, that’s how it was: three lulavim and three esrogim. You can imagine what things were like.

20:35 Speaker 5 The hardship, and on the other hand, how they lived together.

20:38 Speaker 2 Yes, they were together. They would watch; they’d get up early and see one person make the bracha, then another.

20:50 Speaker 5 And when did your father finally travel to the Rebbe?

20:53 Speaker 2 My father traveled—there was a group that went in 5710, but my father first traveled to the Rebbe in Elul 5730. And on Sukkos—I wasn’t there, but he told me—the Rebbe was coming out of the mikveh. The Rebbe had gone to the mikveh. My father couldn’t sleep at night until he’d made the bracha on the Rebbe’s daled minim, of course. His first trip was in Elul 5730.

21:20 Speaker 5 Did he go in for yechidus? That’s something.

21:22 Speaker 2 Yechidus? No, they didn’t talk about it. They were like the chassidim of earlier generations, who didn’t tell anyone anything.

21:28 Speaker 5 Very interesting. I once asked my own father whether Grandpa had told him anything about his yechidus.

21:32 Speaker 2 Nothing, nothing.

21:33 Speaker 5 But I’m asking whether there was anything about his father, because we know that when people spoke about their fathers, the Rebbe would generally take an interest and ask for details. You heard nothing?

21:41 Speaker 2 No.

21:44 Speaker 5 When was your first contact with the Rebbe? What was the custom before a bar mitzvah—did you write to the Rebbe?

21:49 Speaker 2 Of course.

21:49 Speaker 5 When?

21:51 Speaker 2 Before the bar mitzvah.

21:52 Speaker 5 That was the first time.

21:53 Speaker 2 Yes, we wrote to the Rebbe. And at age twenty, the Rebbe would sign the birthday bracha. It’s as though, from age twenty, one is counted among those eligible for military service, so the Rebbe would sign the—

22:06 Speaker 5 So if someone wrote at age seventeen, it was a letter without a signature, but at age twenty it had a signature.

22:10 Speaker 2 At bar mitzvah there was a signature in my time, and at age twenty there was another signature. As though you were going into the army. I don’t remember when that stopped. I don’t know if they still do it. If they did it for me, I don’t remember.

22:22 Speaker 5 The forms. So before your bar mitzvah, who guided you about traveling to the Rebbe?

22:27 Speaker 2 My father. And before we actually traveled, Reb Nissan farbrenged about how you have to understand that you’re traveling to the Rebbe, prepare for it, and so on.

22:34 Speaker 5 When did you travel for the first time?

22:36 Speaker 2 I traveled in [unclear].

22:38 Speaker 5 Which was?

22:38 Speaker 2 It was for my brother Zalman’s wedding. The whole family traveled for the wedding, and we stayed for all of Tishrei.

22:49 Speaker 5 So you were already sixteen.

22:51 Speaker 2 Yes.

22:51 Speaker 5 You were already learning in the yeshiva in Brunoy.

22:53 Speaker 2 Yes. Later I’ll tell you a nice story. There was a period when the Rebbe asked every bochur to bring a note from his mashpia. Without it, you couldn’t go into yechidus. Do you remember that?

23:05 Speaker 5 In the later years.

23:06 Speaker 2 Yes.

23:07 Speaker 5 In ’34, around the middle of ’34.

23:08 Speaker 2 I’ll tell you a story. I don’t know if I’ve told it before.

23:13 Speaker 5 On this podcast, we tell everything, even if you’ve told it before.

23:15 Speaker 2 So Reb Nissan would give a note. Keeping to the schedule was very important to Reb Nissan. It was extremely important to him. And Reb Nissan was very frugal: he would write the letter about the bochur and cut the sheet of paper down instead of folding it, to save paper, and put it in an envelope. So on the plane, if you held it up against the window, you could...

23:46 Speaker 5 See through it.

23:47 Speaker 2 See through it. Of course, I didn’t dare look at what he wrote. And they would bring it to the Rebbe, and afterward the Rebbe would give back the pan, and the Rebbe...

24:00 Speaker 5 What do you mean, bring it to the Rebbe in yechidus? They handed it in; they didn’t take it into the office?

24:03 Speaker 2 They would give it during yechidus. Now, there was a bochur among us whom Reb Nissan didn’t give a note to because he wasn’t keeping to the schedule, although he argued that he had his reasons and so on. And he didn’t want to, how do you say, ask for one, so he didn’t take one. He had no note. He went into yechidus without a note. So the Rebbe asked him, “Where is the note from your mashpia?” He didn’t answer. I don’t know whether he couldn’t answer or didn’t want to. Maybe both. So the Rebbe blessed him and so on. Then the Rebbe told him, “When you leave here and travel back, farbreng with your class and speak about keeping to the yeshiva schedule.” He didn’t tell anyone about it—only me. I was the only one who knew. He did farbreng and spoke about keeping to the schedule without saying that it had anything to do with his mashpia. He felt uncomfortable about it. It’s an interesting story. That’s how the Rebbe confronted him: humble yourself, and speak about keeping to the schedule. There was another bochur who got a note, and it said something less than favorable about how he kept to the schedule, but Reb Nissan also wrote about his abilities. That fellow had taken a little mashke once, and he had a complaint: the Rebbe hadn’t asked whether he had a good head or not. If there was a comment to make, there was a comment to make. So he said something to Reb Nissan about it. That was chutzpah in those days. To dare say something like that to Reb Nissan was not something people normally did. Right. I don’t know if... Well, you arrived in Elul. When was the wedding? At the beginning. My brother’s wedding was, uh, at the beginning of Elul. What was it like? It was very exciting. My brother Rabbi Sholom went into [unclear]. He didn’t understand. He had been in California. Yes, he had been...

26:12 Speaker 2 Disgusted, as they say. He didn’t understand this [unclear]; he thought it was... Afterward he didn’t understand. Eating... We had an uncle, Yankel Itzkowski, who had a store. We saw bochurim coming out with ice cream, and he couldn’t understand how the Rebbe’s people could eat ice cream. In Brunoy, you didn’t see ice cream. Ice cream just wasn’t... There’s the story with the aufruf of Itzik Gurevitch. Do you know the story? I don’t know anything. Tell it. Itzik Gurevitch’s aufruf before his wedding was in [unclear], and there was no farbrengen that Shabbos. So the aufruf farbrengen was at his uncle Reb Pafner’s place. Reb Pafner was Reb Nissan’s son-in-law. Reb Nissan farbrenged there, and he got onto Zelig Katzman. Zelig Katzman—if you knew him, he was a very chassidisher Jew. He was. So Reb Nissan got onto him and said, “Zelig, you belonged to Chassidus, you belonged in the beis din. From there, a person has to daven; a person has to daven in Hashem’s house.” Meir Rivkin was there, and he’d had a little l’chaim. Meir Rivkin shouted at Reb Nissan—I was there myself—“Reb Nissan, what do you want from him? Leave the young man alone!” That’s the sort of language he used. Rivkin was speaking up for Zelig Katzman, you mean. Yes. He was shouting at Reb Nissan, and Reb Nissan paid no attention. He kept shouting and shouting and interrupting him, until Meir said, “Reb Nissan, Zelig Katzman eats ice cream, and he goes out in the mitzvah tanks to put tefillin on people in Bnei Atarot.” Reb Nissan turned red as a beet, jumped up from his chair, and said, “[unclear]—a mitzvah campaign with a tank, a mitzvah campaign with a detailed leaflet—that’s...”

28:12 Speaker 2 The army needs all its equipment. Ice cream, certainly not. For the mitzvah campaigns, that’s—definitely not, not—definitely not. And for the mitzvah campaigns, of course, you have to travel to America. What was Rosh Hashanah davening like? Yes, the crowding was terrible. We were packed in throughout davening. I was lucky I was a bit tall; I would lift myself up just to breathe. It was like that... And Zalman Volshansky, Avshalom—his elbow was right here in my mouth, and I had to get it out. I was sweating and lifting myself up. Just before the shofar blowing, six fellows fainted and they carried them out. So I had a little more room. One of them... They carried them out; they had simply fainted. It was packed and hot as an oven. What was the shofar blowing like? What do you remember? Look, the Rebbe’s seriousness, the look on his face. Did you see the... They say the Rebbe moved the shofars. Could you see that? We didn’t know the Rebbe said Yizkor. It was on the second day, but we saw the Rebbe crying and throwing his tallis over his face—his tallis over the whole... the whole bimah. That was it. And I was also there when, on the third day of Selichos, the Rebbe cried throughout the entire maamar. I caught [unclear]. No, there wasn’t—[unclear]—I was in between. That was a farbrengen, [unclear], heaven and earth. But he cried throughout the entire maamar. Yes. And afterward, of course, we went back to yeshiva. Wait, wait, one second. Stay with me before that. A meal upstairs? No, no. Because he had come with his family. Schneidel didn’t invite us, or I don’t know, I don’t know. We didn’t even go visit Rebbetzin Chana. It wasn’t like today. Rebbetzin Chana could no longer walk. [unclear]—my father was [unclear]. My father, he was [unclear]. He didn’t go. That’s it—even [unclear] didn’t go, though he knew us. Yes, but it wasn’t like it was later. I...

32:16 Speaker 2 I wasn’t asking about Chabad. Didn’t you go up there at all, do anything? No, no. And do you remember the Sukkos farbrengen in the sukkah? In the sukkah, when the Rebbe spoke about “sheni basukkah” and “sheni sukkah.” Well? Oh, I have a very nice story about that. That’s what you wanted to tell. Have you heard it before? No. I haven’t heard it. So the Rebbe farbrenged in the sukkah, and I was on the side by the zal—the zal was here, on the side with the windows. The Rebbe farbrenged in the sukkah. It was where the sukkah was below, and the sukkah was large, and there were platforms. So I was on a platform over here, on this side. In other words, close to it, with your back to the zal. I was standing like this, yes, with my back to the zal. I’m explaining for those who can’t see. Yes. By the way, Mrs. Kresik was there, and she also went into the zal to listen. Into the zal? Yes. She had come because she, too, had been at the wedding, apparently. Yes, yes, yes. So she fell—she slipped nearby. No, she fainted. When was that? In ’34? In ’34, yes, I was there too. In ’34 she slipped. Right, right. But why had she come for the wedding? Yes, yes, I’m telling you: she was at... Actually, her daughter was marrying off... What? Her daughter was marrying off her daughter. Her daughter to the Lelover Rebbe. Yes. So she stayed on for Tishrei as well. Yes, yes. And she stayed and listened to the farbrengen. Yes, yes, yes. I saw her. And then you’re standing there. We’re standing there, and the Rebbe spoke. The farbrengen was about “sheni basukkah” and “sheni sukkah.” The Rebbe remarked that since they had been talking so much about “sheni basukkah,” perhaps the crowd had fallen asleep. So they should sing a lively niggun to wake everyone up. The Rebbe said, “Where is my relative Schneur Zalman Butman,”

34:11 Speaker 2 “Schneur Zalman Levinson.” Then it was, “Zingt a freilichen niggun”—“Sing a joyous niggun.” In other words, the Rebbe asked, “Where is my relative, Schneur Zalman Butman?” Schneur Zalman Levinson. Those who know the story know that he had two passports. The same Schneur Zalman Butman was called Schneur Zalman Levinson on the passport he used to leave. Right? He had another passport. Schneur Zalman Levinson. And when it began, the Rebbe said he should start a niggun: “Vu iz mein karov?”—“Where is my relative, Schneur Zalman Butman, Schneur Zalman Levinson? Zingt a freilichen niggun.” It stirred up the crowd. The Rebbe said to his wife, who was sitting there, [unclear]. Then the Rebbe turned to Rabbi Yair Kahn and said, “Nu, you’re the son-in-law, so you start.” Rabbi Yair was Rabbi Schneur Zalman Butman’s son-in-law. Rabbi Yair started; if I’m not mistaken, it was a niggun of the Rebbe’s father’s hakafos. And the Rebbe began moving his hands—both holy hands. The platform, where I was standing, shifted. The board at the side shifted and got stuck, and they told people to get down because there were [unclear] underneath the board. Some of the men told us to get down. It bent and came up onto the Rebbe’s table. So I saw that there seemed to be enough people there to help, and I climbed up and stood directly facing the Rebbe. Let me explain: the board had simply tilted and bent. The high end came to rest on the Rebbe’s table, and below there were groups of [unclear]. Yes. And you felt you had to clear the area, so you stood on the Rebbe’s table? Not on the table. I climbed onto the wooden section. I went up because there were enough fellows taking care of things. Really, the person in the worst position was [unclear]. Yes. He was the one the Rebbe later said had suffered for half a year. It had been on my shoulders, and that was really why the Rebbe—

36:06 Speaker 2 So—the Rebbe stopped the... His leg broke. Yes, yes. He was a man with very strong bones, so it took time for him to recover, but it was fortunate that he healed, that it hadn’t shattered or been crushed. And I could have come even closer, but I couldn’t. You didn’t dare. I saw the Rebbe’s face. It was the first time I was directly facing the Rebbe’s face, with such light. At the end of the farbrengen, while the Rebbe was seated, he distributed bottles of mashke. First he gave one to Rabbi Zalman—uh, Rabbi Avraham Zalzman. He was the head of the kollel in Nachlas Har Chabad. The Rebbe turned and handed him a bottle of mashke, and then the Rebbe took another bottle from behind him. They were both behind him. There was Goldschmidt from Nachlas Har Chabad, that redheaded man—what was his name? Moshe Goldschmidt. Moshe Goldschmidt. They had just come out of Russia then. Yes, and the Rebbe wanted to give him a bottle. So Avremel—Avremel Zalzman—thought he was helping the Rebbe and grabbed the bottle from the Rebbe’s hand to give it to Moshe Goldschmidt. People started shouting, “Nu, nu!” He didn’t know how things worked; it was his first time with the Rebbe. He didn’t know that the Rebbe hands it over himself, not through someone else. Yes, and he saw the Rebbe straining. Let me explain again, since you can’t see it: the Rebbe turned almost halfway around to reach Rabbi Moshe Goldschmidt and put it into his hands. To give it to Zalzman, the Rebbe had turned a little, and then he turned still farther to give it to Rabbi Moshe Goldschmidt. So the crowd started shouting, “Nu, nu!” Yes, the crowd started shouting. He shouted too: “What—why are you grabbing it?” So he wanted to hand it back. In a second, I—[unclear]—

37:57 Speaker 2 In a second, the Rebbe caught his hand. It was his other hand, his left hand. He had taken the bottle and was holding it, and the Rebbe caught his hand. The Rebbe said, “Mishkal shekeli.” As though to say that taking it back was like what is written about “mishkal shekeli.” “Mishkal shekeli.” And with his hand, the Rebbe gave it to Goldschmidt. With his hand he gave it—I mean, the Rebbe held Zalzman’s hand and gave the bottle with Zalzman’s hand. Yes, because it says [unclear]: holiness gives and does not take back. He wanted to hand the bottle back, but for some reason the Rebbe wouldn’t. “Mishkal shekeli.” In a second the Rebbe caught his hand, and I was right there. By the way, I told this to Yossi Hecht, Rabbi Hecht. He said, “It’s good you told me,” because he had stopped... We really need to look at that year’s sicha. The sichos are in volume fifty. Yes, we need to look. There’s a special sicha about... He also didn’t know [unclear]; I told him. But those sichos are in—not in Likkutei; it discusses education more. We need to look. I haven’t looked. That’s one of the things I remember. Wow. The Rebbe addressed what had happened at the time, but then... The Rebbe looked on for a few minutes while they tended to the injured people, but afterward he continued with the singing. But I’m telling you, his face shone. I didn’t dare. I could really have been even closer, because the board had bent and was like this. In other words, he could have been as close as the distance between us now. But not level with the table. It rose like this, a little. Yes, I’m explaining what you’re showing with your hands. Yes.

39:41 Speaker 2 But he repeated “mishkal shekeli” several times, and in a second the Rebbe said “mishkal shekeli,” took Zalzman’s hand and gave it to Moshe Goldschmidt. Yes, that’s interesting. You wanted to jump straight to going to yeshiva. What? You almost jumped to your trip to yeshiva without telling that story. After that came Simchas Torah. Simchas Torah—try to tell us something from the heart. What was it like to see the hakafos? We Jews want to be inspired. Simchas Torah was Simchas Torah. I stood facing the aron kodesh, but I was afraid because there was a table there. I didn’t want to... Get hit in the stomach. I didn’t want to get cut. Yes. Reb Zalman Zarchi was standing there, and I was behind him. He was in front. Where was your father standing? Or did they give him a more prominent place? I don’t remember, I don’t remember. But no, there wasn’t any special treatment for the Jews who had arrived. Some fellows from France had arrived earlier too. So no, that wasn’t the issue, but we stood out; we stood out as a family. And... what else do I remember from there? Oh, Reb Zalman Butman. He came after ten years during which he couldn’t enter America. So he traveled. [unclear] He arrived after ten years, and every night he would come upstairs to 770 with his suitcases. No, he was disabled. Oh, with crutches. With crutches, and he would tell stories. It’s a shame I didn’t write them down. Afterward he said, “Ah, what a shame! I had a chance to receive an honor and I missed it.” He said, “I had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to receive royal honors, and I missed it.” And why didn’t he go? Simply because he was afraid something would happen; the pushing was very intense. He was on crutches, so he was simply afraid to go. It wasn’t that he went to sleep.

41:39 Speaker 2 He was simply afraid. When the Rebbe told him to stay, he didn’t come because he was afraid with the crutches. He didn’t come to yechidus because he was afraid the crowding would put him in danger. They told him it would be extremely dangerous for him there. Imagine if he had been near where—near where it happened. Yes, because the older people were sitting there. So he said—oy, he was a wise man—“I could have had a chance to receive royal honors, and I missed it.” But he said, “I didn’t come because I was afraid for my leg.” For his legs. His leg. After that you went in for yechidus—when? As a family? After Yom Tov, each of us went in alone. Oh, the whole family didn’t go in together? Everyone... A blessing. For the bochurim there wasn’t much time; it was very quick. So did Rabbi Nissim guide you on what to write before yechidus? No, no, no. By the way, I don’t remember whether this was the first or second yechidus. I get the dates mixed up. There was a Jew in Paris named Saïda who had a ticket company. He told me, “I’ll give you a good price, but on condition that you ask for a blessing.” There had been a theft: someone had broken into his safe and so on. “Ask the Rebbe for a blessing.” I said, “All right.” So I wrote a note for him, asking for a blessing in his name—a blessing for Saïda. The Rebbe asked me his mother’s name. I couldn’t answer. I couldn’t answer. The Rebbe asked me again what his mother’s name was, and I couldn’t even say that I didn’t know. I couldn’t. My lips wouldn’t open; I was so overwhelmed with fear. I don’t remember if he asked twice or three times. Then the Rebbe told me, “Nu, when you leave here, find out his mother’s name in France, write it down and submit it with the notes.” It was quite a story.

43:34 Speaker 2 Interesting. It was important to the Rebbe that people write him their name. Their mother’s name. Yes. Yes. And then what did the Rebbe say about your going back to Brunoy to learn? He gave a bracha. And then you went back to learn in the yeshiva at [unclear]? Yes. After that—who was there besides Reb Nissan and Rabbi Yosef Goldberg? Who was running the yeshiva at [unclear] then? In [unclear], Reb Nissan was the mashpia for all the classes, and in Brunoy there wasn’t really a separate Talmud Torah. There was a melamed who learned with a few children. Altogether, there weren’t that many bochurim. Meaning, these weren’t yet the years when people came to learn from outside— No, no one came from... They learned in Yiddish, and no one there knew French. No, I don’t mean from France. I mean, they weren’t coming from Crown Heights yet. No, no. That was years later. Yes, many years later. So Reb Nissan was in charge of all the Chassidus, both the classes and the supervision. And his son, Reb [unclear], taught classes. That was already, uh, Gemara with Rashi, in 5707 or 5706. Posner came later, when you moved up to... There wasn’t even such a thing as first class, second class, third class, first shiur, second shiur— Posner is Rabbi Levin. Rabbi Levi Posner taught the higher class. After that we moved up to Posner. That was for two years, and he pushed us to prepare the Gemara on our own, and... After that we moved up to Goldberg, z"l. Goldberg also taught—Reb Yosef Goldberg. That was the staff. Now, you learned all year round. What did you hear while you were in France about the great Yud Adar? For example, about that. Oh, the great Yud Adar, the great Yud Adar was—

45:40 Speaker 2 We were on the phones all the time. Then there was the first broadcast to Eretz Yisroel, and we got through to a Jew who worked at the post office. He gave us a few minutes to hear the Rebbe’s voice. Meaning, you called from France to Eretz Yisroel to listen? We had Levi Goldstein with us. Yes. He had come to study in France, and he called [unclear] here and there, and he got about ten minutes during which we heard the Rebbe’s voice. You heard ten minutes of—a live broadcast. A live broadcast. So there was dancing, such joy. In those days, what it meant to hear the Rebbe’s voice—it was... Reb Yosef Yelinsky said, “Nu, Moshiach is coming [unclear].” Reb Yosef said that. Reb Yosef is a whole story in himself. Maybe you can tell us a little more about the story of Reb Yosef. And about Reb Shulik, too, if you could tell us a little. Reb Shulik, Reb [unclear], Reb Yosef was... Just to explain: Reb Shulik was the father, and Reb Yosef was the son. Yes. Reb Shulik was a Jew who had previously lived in Paris, in the Chabad neighborhood there, in what was called the Hotel Moderne. The Joint rented a hotel, and most—or all—of the Chabad families lived in it. Meaning that besides those who lived in Brunoy, there were chassidim in Paris itself. Certainly. Who, for example? There was Shmuel Dovid Belinov, Chaim Lipa Levin, Rabbi Chaim [unclear], Lieberov, Zimov, [unclear]—who else was there? There was Noitik. Several families lived there, somewhere around ten families. So the Joint rented them a hotel, and the Joint funded it. Yes, for years and years and years. Like an immigrant absorption residence. Yes, something like that. They were all there, and another ten women in the guest quarters. There was a home for [unclear] there. Oh, and who else was there? Reb Lipa Edelman. And they also had davening there—

47:56 Speaker 2 They were all there. Yes, everything, everything. And their children came to Brunoy to learn. Their children were already— Yes, but only a few came to Brunoy to learn. Yes, yes. Chaim Lipa didn’t have children. And yes, they came to learn. Oh, so if he arrived—if he did—Chaim Lipa and Nissan, [unclear]. But they came later. Yes, but they reached Brunoy. Before that they learned there in the Talmud Torah. Rabbi Meir Yosef Benitzky was there too. Rabbi Meir Yosef Benitzky was the attendant at the mikveh in Paris, and he was also a melamed there. That was [unclear]. So Reb Shulik was in Paris, and after that? After that the Joint—after that, the hotel wanted to throw them out. I don’t know what year it was; don’t hold me to it, check it. They decided to move out. So an arrangement was made with Mr. Grodzensky that they would build apartments for them near Paris, in Aubervilliers. It was cheaper there; it was a suburb. Mr. Grodzensky had an apartment that they turned into a shul, and they dug some sort of hole for a mikveh. That was there. In the meantime, Reb Shulik came to Brunoy, and they gave him three rooms inside the yeshiva. He had a kitchen and two other rooms, and he lived there with his wife and his son, Reb Yosef. Reb Yosef wasn’t— Yes. Reb Yosef attended to his father. Yes. Wait, a little background first. Reb Shulik was actually a chossid of the— The Rebbe Rashab. The Rebbe Rashab. Yes. Of the Rebbe Rashab from [unclear], even before [unclear], right? Yes, yes. What a soul. I think that when the Rebbe Rashab passed away, he was already a young married man. He was— Of which Rebbe? He was born in the thirties of Reb Shulik, of the son of the—of the Tzemach Tzedek. The Tzemach Tzedek. Reb Shulik from [unclear]. Yes. Moshe [unclear]. He—

49:57 Speaker 2 Reb Shulik was a [unclear] Jew. He was handsome, physically, and had good, noble character traits. I remember that as a child, when I looked at pictures of Lubavitch chassidim and the like, Shulik’s picture was the most... I’ll tell you an episode. There was a non-Jewish nurse who gave him vitamin injections in his old age. She also gave injections to Reb Nissan’s wife. But she didn’t want to take money from Reb Shulik. Reb Nissan’s wife heard about it and asked, “Why don’t you take money from him?” The nurse said of Reb Shulik, “He’s an angel of G-d, an angel. I don’t take money from an angel.” Even she had respect for him. But he dealt with practical matters too, right? He was the yeshiva’s bookkeeper. The bookkeeper. At the yeshiva, because he had been a bookkeeper for the Gurary family in Kremenchuk. Yes, he was the bookkeeper at the Gurary factory. Yes. To such an extent that Reb Yosef told me he used to lend money to the workers. Once there was a commission, an audit of the money, and because everyone loved him, even the non-Jews, they all offered money from their own pockets and filled the cashbox so that there wouldn’t be—a shortfall. So there wouldn’t be any problems. So he wouldn’t get caught. Yes. And Reb Yosef was a Jew who was, uh... [unclear]. Reb Shulik was—composed. And also—orderly, careful. Yes. Reb Yosef was something of a batlan, [unclear], a batlan, and he would daven with tears. He was a special Jew. There’s a story Zalman Chanin tells, but I can tell it more firsthand than Zalman Chanin, Chaim Chanin’s son. Chaim Chanin spent many years in France. Oh, Chaim also lived in Paris, perhaps in [unclear] too. So Chaim Chanin spent many years in Paris. He was

51:55 Speaker 2 A merchant. Later he moved to America, but he would travel on business to Italy and other places, so he would pass through Brunoy. At first he stayed only with us. Later he would come to eat; he slept at our house, and sometimes he had a meal with Reb Nissan or Rabbi Soloveitchik. Once Rabbi Soloveitchik complained to him and said, “Chaykel, Aharon Yosef [unclear]—he’s gone off the rails.” That’s what Soloveitchik said about his son—he complained that his son had supposedly gone off the rails. What did he mean? [Unclear.] He had started learning Nigleh on Shabbos. So Aharon Yosef answered him—he began defending himself. He said, “I don’t know what my father wants. I get up in the morning and learn Chassidus, and that’s how I daven. But Reb Nissan asked me to learn a little Gemara with the boys in the yeshiva. All week I run on foot to the train, and when I come back from the train I walk home. I arrive tired. So the little time I have left to prepare the material Reb Nissan asked me to learn—the Gemara—I do that on Shabbos. So what?” Then he said [unclear]. That was in a home of chassidim. As it says in Likkutei Torah [unclear]. The point is that you need both Nigleh and Chassidus [unclear]. So when did you later move on to— By the way, yes, when Reb Mendel Futerfas arrived in England—what year was that? 5724. 5724. There was one telephone in the yeshiva. Nobody had a telephone, and it was in the corridor, and everyone called Reb Mendel [unclear]. By the way, when the news came that Khrushchev had granted

53:59 Speaker 2 Reb Mendel a pardon, there was dancing before Minchah—dancing and rejoicing that Reb Mendel had been released. Did Reb Nissan join the dancing? Yes. Reb Soloveitchik, Reb Nissan, my father—my father had been in his class. Then they decided to give him a ticket, all the [unclear] of Brunoy, to come from London to Brunoy for a visit. He did come, and he began to farbreng. He poured a glass of mashke for Aharon Yosef. He was very fond of Aharon Yosef [unclear]; he had been in his class, though he was older. Aharon Yosef wasn’t used to drinking, so he didn’t really want it. Then he said to Aharon Yosef, “If they had told you that, if you drank this glass of mashke, I would get out of Russia, would you have drunk it?” “Of course.” “Well, now I’m out, and I’m asking you.” So he drank it. Then he gave him another glass. I don’t know whether he drank a little of the second glass, but it was enough, because he wasn’t used to it. Then he told some beautiful stories. He told us that when his father became engaged, his father’s prospective father-in-law went in to the Rebbe Rashab. Reb Soloveitchik’s father-in-law. Yes, and he asked the Rebbe Rashab what he thought of Reb Soloveitchik—he was asking about his future son-in-law. His future son-in-law. This was before the wedding, when he had just become engaged. He went in for yechidus and asked the Rebbe Rashab, “What do you think of my son-in-law?” The Rebbe Rashab answered that when Soloveitchik is alone in a room and says amen, “he splits worlds.” How would you translate “splits worlds”? He breaks through worlds. Breaks through worlds. That’s what the Rebbe Rashab said about Soloveitchik when he says amen, “Yehei shmei rabba” [unclear]. That’s

56:13 Speaker 2 how Aharon Yosef told it. He’d had a little mashke, but that’s what he said. During the famine in Samarkand, many Jews there were dying of hunger, their bellies swollen. He performed chessed shel emes: he would gather the deceased, perform the taharah and bury them without payment. That was the... Sometimes he found bodies that already had worms in them, Hashem protect us, and he would clean them. And when you dig a grave, you mustn’t leave it open. Sometimes he dug one and didn’t find anyone to bury, so he slept inside the grave all night. After he had taken a little mashke, he said at the farbrengen, “My Chassidus isn’t worth a kopek. My Chassidus isn’t worth a penny, nothing at all. But the fact that I cared for the deceased—that I wouldn’t give up for all the wealth in the world.” The Frierdiker Rebbe said about the... In other words, he himself did that work, not his father. That’s what he was saying: even if his Chassidus was worth nothing, he would never give up the merit of that work. Then he told a story about what a chossid is—learning something from everything. Two Jews arrived there, a father and son. The father was a sturdy man, and they were dressed in respectable clothes and hats, fine garments. The son asked the Frierdiker Rebbe, “Where is the Rambam buried here? Where is the Rambam buried?” The Frierdiker Rebbe had a habit of [unclear]. “Look, he’s buried [unclear]. What are you looking for?” So the father said to his son, “Don’t speak to him. He’s one of those people with a cross in their heads.” He thought the Frierdiker Rebbe was a missionary. So he said, “Master of the Universe, [unclear]—don’t speak

58:21 Speaker 2 to him, he’s a fool.” The Frierdiker Rebbe said of this, “[unclear].” For many years he would daven with that expression in mind, with the sense of bittul the man had given him. They asked me why Reb Soloveitchik didn’t travel to [unclear]. By the time he began thinking of going, his wife didn’t want him to, and he was very afraid to leave her alone. My brother Zalman told me that... By the way, who was his father-in-law? What was his name? His father-in-law—what was his name? He said that people used to say that hearing Hallel from the Maharil was something wonderful, wonderful. He was referring to the Maharil of Kapust. Reb Soloveitchik told us that when his father-in-law decided to go, he said, “We’ll go, but we won’t be impressed.” They had belonged to the Rebbe Maharash, so they said, “We won’t be impressed.” But he said that when he arrived there for Hallel, [unclear], he was overcome with awe. Reb Soloveitchik was someone you could pour your heart out to. When we traveled to the center for yechidus and had all sorts of things on our minds, we would go in to him and tell him. He was a good adviser, quite a character. And after the seder of learning, we would go in and dance a little. He would tell stories. Something I didn’t write down: after the Pesach Seder, on Seder night, we would go in to him, [unclear]. Yes, when was the next time you traveled to the Rebbe? Well, I was there in 5729 and 5730; I wasn’t there in 5731, and I traveled in 5732. There’s also a story with several versions, but I heard it immediately after hakafos. If I’m not mistaken, it was in 5732. People from the consulate came for hakafos, and they brought Chaim Cohen, Supreme Court Justice Chaim Cohen. Do you know who Chaim Cohen was? Yes, Chaim

1:00:44 Speaker 2 Cohen was—[unclear]. No, he was a Jew who had learned in yeshivos but didn’t fully observe Torah and mitzvos. Yes, and he married a divorced woman—that’s how the story goes—and made laws. So he came to the farbrengen, to hakafos. I was opposite them, but I couldn’t hear it. I heard the story right after hakafos. When they began handing out the sifrei Torah—I heard afterward that they had asked the Rebbe whether to give him one. The Rebbe answered, “Of course. A Jew is standing here with everyone else; why not?” So they began giving everyone a sefer Torah. He was somewhat older, and they gave him one. The consul said, “Perhaps it’s too heavy for him?” And he said, “It’s all right.” Then the Rebbe interjected, “Well, a Jew wants to accept upon himself the yoke of Torah. Give it to him.” Today there are versions in which the Rebbe said, “Start giving him, giving him, giving him sifrei Torah.” The Rebbe didn’t intervene like that. It doesn’t make sense, either. The Rebbe heard that they were giving him a sefer Torah and that the consul had said it was heavy, while he himself had said it was all right. So the Rebbe said, “Well, a Jew wants to accept the yoke of Torah. Give it to him.” That hakafah was relatively long compared with the others. I remember a song we sang, “We Call First,” but it wasn’t directed at him; those were the songs the regulars sang. The regulars. Yes. And when he came back, they were all—how do you say it?—all sweating. Later [unclear] said he had met a friend of Chaim Cohen’s. The friend told him they had been sitting at a café in Manhattan the day before, and Cohen had said, “I won’t be here tomorrow,” without telling them where he was going. After he came back, he told his friend—I’ve forgotten his name. He said to him, “If I were younger, I would be one of the Rebbe’s chassidim.” He was very impressed. And his friend said that because he

1:02:38 Speaker 2 After he had yechidus with the Rebbe, he changed his will. He wrote that he should have a religious Jewish funeral. I remember everyone was in shock, because he had always said he would give his body to the pathology institute in Rehovot. Yes. After he came back from the Rebbe, he changed it. Yes, you can see the effect. Now, before that, before 5732, when did you actually arrive? What do you mean? You were at the tish—when did you arrive? For Selichos? When did you arrive? Yes, it was right before Rosh Hashanah, a day or two before Selichos. A lot of bochurim came from Brooklyn then; that was the practice. No, there weren’t many bochurim at all. That was the tish when all the Russians arrived. Later, later, in 5750— Wait, before we get to later. 5732. When was the yechidus for the French and Canadians? 5730. 5735, no? In 5735 there was the— No, there was a group in 5733. Which group? The campaign. Before the group. I’ll tell you in a moment. We were shluchim for two years, 5734 and 5735. 5733 and 5734. In 5735 I came in [unclear]. Three years before that would be—5730. 5730. So in 5730 a few bochurim came from France: Goldberg and my brother Pitche from Marseille, who was a shliach in Marseille. Meaning Goldberg—you meant Rabbi— Itzik Goldberg. And his brother Yitzchak, who was a shliach in Marseille. And Muli Gurevitch, the shliach in Lyon, and Matzov[?], who is a shliach in Toulouse. In Toulouse. And there’s Yitzchak Horowitz, may he have a complete recovery, who is in [unclear]. The son of Reb Chaim [unclear]. Yes, you know him. The son of Reb Chaim [unclear]. Yitzchak, may he have a complete recovery. A great Torah scholar. May he have a complete recovery. Yes, Hashem should heal him. A Jew who would make a siyum on Shas every few years. Yes, yes, yes. Do you know how that started? No. As a young man, he had a good head—

1:04:45 Speaker 2 —and learned quite well. I used to go on mivtzoim with him on Sundays. There were—who were the bochurim? Gurevitch, Goldberg and my brother Pitche went as one group on Sunday mivtzoim, and I and—Gurevitch, I mean Itchke. That’s how Itchke’s friendship with Yisroel Goldberg developed. And I, Gurevitch from Lyon and Yitzchak went on mivtzoim the following week. So each group would go once a week? No. We went every—I think every week, on mivtzoim. Now, how did I get onto this? The group arrived [unclear]. They arrived—there were a lot of Jews. So they arrived. That group came to New York and wanted to be received at 770. Goldberg will tell you that they didn’t want to receive them. They wanted to go to Montreal, and Montreal also—then at least they could come in every Shabbos, and [unclear]. Afterward there was a sicha from the Rebbe. It was on 15 Shvat. Then they said that all the guests from France could come into that yechidus too. I was at Zalman’s wedding with my brother, a"h, at the time. I went in too. I stood—it was the first time there was a half-hour yechidus—so I stood beside the table. In the room. Yes, and I, [unclear]. Sholom Ber Nemenov, Reb Nissan’s son, was standing there. I saw that the Rebbe had a sort of plastic holder with pockets and letters in it, but beyond that I couldn’t tell you what the room looked like. Then the Rebbe gave the parable of the king, and they became shluchim. What parable? The king wants to—how do you say it—to bring out his hidden strengths. So he sends people to distant countries, and then he longs for them and grows stronger, and so on. Meaning, those bochurim wanted to leave— You mentioned Brunoy. So in Brunoy—

1:07:17 Speaker 2 —there were three or four bochurim. Who were they? My brother Yisroel, [unclear], and Mishke Nemenov, a"h, Reb Nissan’s son, and Hershel Shifrin, may he be well. You know Hershel Shifrin. And the two Belinovs, Motel and his brother Yitzchak. Motel, a"h, and Yitzchak, may he be well. That was the entire zal. Now Mishke Nemenov went to the Rebbe. My brother Yisroel wanted to go to the Rebbe too. So my brother Yisroel went, and Hershel Shifrin. Yes. The Belinovs didn’t go; I don’t know why they didn’t. And Reb Nissan wanted them to come back. So my brother—Yisroel told me, “I made sure I was connected with his son too.” His son wanted to stay, partly for shidduchim, so he made it a group matter. One shtibel. One shtibel. And apparently the Rebbe wanted them to stay too. So the Rebbe sent six shluchim. To France. Yes. To take the place of the bochurim. Yes, that was in 5737. That was 5737. You understand? Who were the six? You know who they were. Shafran. Have you heard of Shafran? Yes. And Shlomo—Goldberg, I mean Yankel Shleime Goldberg. Yankel Shleime Goldberg too. He’s Israeli, actually. He was, yes, but he has already passed away. Yaffa Shapira’s son-in-law. Right, right. And Avraham Lipsker, Shmekel Ezerov, and Osher Tzayningold[?]. Do you know who Osher Tzayningold[?] is? He’s still alive. His wife— From Minnesota. From Minnesota. His wife passed away. He’s still alive, isn’t he? Yes. And Shmuel Redblatt. Those were the six bochurim who came in place of those fellows. Listen to this. The yeshiva’s physical arrangements—Reb Nissan was in charge of them. Imagine that. They prepared a room for them, the biggest room, set up the iron beds, fixed the beds, and they arrived. Now the room on our floor faced their windows. So we were curious.

1:09:45 Speaker 2 We could see them, and afterward they would make tapes of the Rebbe and didn’t want to let anyone in. I remember the older bochurim—my brother Zalman, Mul Zimon[?] and Nemenov[?]—lifted Nemenov up and he pulled out the plug[?]. From the window. Yes, and it shorted out. They didn’t understand. Oh, the wire. The electrical socket. Yes. And they became the shluchim and started going out to Paris. So what language did they know? Either Yiddish or English or a little Lashon Hakodesh. That was all. Now, to travel to Paris, you need money. So they would stand there like beggars—damn it, he won’t like me saying that. Before Pesach, Reb Nissan would take the coins from the yeshiva’s tzedakah fund and give them money to travel for Shabbos. They didn’t stay in hotels; they stayed with Boruch Shifrin[?] and others who lived in Paris. And they began doing a little outreach. They weren’t there even a year—almost, how should I put it, a year and seven—less than that, even. What kind of outreach? Going to shuls and repeating sichos. Yes. They arrived in—I’ll tell you—they arrived in Kislev. I remember a car with eight, eight, eight seats. It was quite an attraction. People came to meet them. What a celebration they made. My brother Zalman went. And then they went back. Went back, went back. So the Rebbe called, if I’m not mistaken, Bentzi Shemtov and told him, “If there were some fellows doing outreach, and now it has stopped, we need to see that it continues.” I don’t know; Bentzi was apparently afraid of Reb Nissan. So Dovid Raskin called. Reb Nissan then arranged for three of the older bochurim to be able to work on spreading Yiddishkeit. Who were the three? Zalman, may he be well, Yankel Goldberg, and Mulya Zimov. Mulya knew French best because—

1:12:02 Speaker 2 —he had lived in Paris. Now, Yankel was more involved in nigleh. Zalman was more of a Chassidic philosopher. He was more into—he was a sort of philosopher, you know. And they began doing outreach. They didn’t know French either. They would stand in Saint-Michel, where the university is. We would stand where the students went in to eat and look for Jewish faces. They found someone named Bergman who spoke Yiddish. They found someone, Volika, and started giving classes.

1:12:37 Speaker 6 Volika, who lives in Netanya today.

1:12:39 Speaker 2 I mean his father.

1:12:40 Speaker 6 His father lives in Kiryat Malachi.

1:12:41 Speaker 2 Yes. In short, with a little Hebrew and a few words of French, he began doing outreach, and a core group formed. Every Sunday they would come to the yeshiva. There was one class, or two classes, Torah classes, and one of them was studying to become a judge. My brother Zalman wasn’t particularly interested in the Torah class, and that’s how the core group was born. They must have many letters from the Rebbe today, many, many letters. Afterward, Moulia spoke more French, more... Then Yankel Goldberg traveled to the Rebbe. Afterward my brother wanted to, so he stayed for yechidus. He has a very interesting story about that yechidus, how at the end the Rebbe told him, “Yes, you can stay.” As for Moulia, I don’t even know whether Moulia studied at the seminary. Moulia was the first to get married. Then all the bachurim started going back to Moulia. We were soldiers, Nissan.

1:13:45 Speaker 6 Because he immediately went back to the army to do outreach.

1:13:47 Speaker 2 And who helped buy the, the, the hall? Have you been to France? Have you seen Rue Lamartine? Who helped him buy it? The bachurim and Anash, and Binyamin Gadetsky[?]. That’s how it began, and we would do mivtzoim. Before the Six-Day War, we would go out on mivtzoim every Sunday. Back then the address was—Rue Lamartine didn’t exist yet. There was a shul at [unclear], 17 Rue des Rosiers. That’s where the classes were.

1:14:15 Speaker 6 The shul where the Rebbe taught.

1:14:17 Speaker 2 Yes, there were classes there even before they had the hall. They would teach them, and they would come for Shabbos retreats. In the summer, Rabbi Nissan would host all the bachurim, all the students, and we would give them classes.

1:14:30 Speaker 6 What do you mean, Rabbi Nissan hosted them at the yeshiva?

1:14:33 Speaker 2 In the summer. There was a two-month break. They would bring the young men to the yeshiva, and we would work with them.

1:14:39 Speaker 6 Ah, so you mean at—

1:14:40 Speaker 2 It was as though Moulia brought them, you understand? But who worked with them?

1:14:44 Speaker 6 The bachurim.

1:14:44 Speaker 2 All the bachurim.

1:14:46 Speaker 6 No, I liked the expression “Rabbi Nissan hosted them,” because, as it were, Brunoy—the building—belonged to Rabbi Nissan.

1:14:51 Speaker 2 He was the administrator.

1:14:52 Speaker 6 So you mean?

1:14:53 Speaker 2 And he didn’t ask Moulia for money for hosting them.

1:14:56 Speaker 6 That’s what it sounds like. That’s what it sounds like.

1:14:57 Speaker 2 And it was documented, and they would translate his farbrengen into French. Matiasov[?] from Toulouse was very active. [unclear] organized Anash. Everyone was there for Moulia, yes.

1:15:13 Speaker 6 For the out— for the outreach then.

1:15:14 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

1:15:15 Speaker 6 So you’re saying that, as bachurim studying there, they traveled to the Rebbe, and really they wanted to stay with the Rebbe.

1:15:19 Speaker 2 The Rebbe sent them back.

1:15:21 Speaker 6 And then you mentioned the parable about a king’s son—

1:15:22 Speaker 2 Yes, the whole sicha is about that. And then it started. For example, there was a school called Yavneh. Fifty young men came for Shabbos, and nearly all of them—the vast majority—became Chabad chassidim. Afterward their teachers became Chabad chassidim too. So on Fridays, the teachers would give a class on a sicha of the Rebbe, since it was already the weekend. You know, there was a certain Tal who was a genius, and there was Isakovitch, if you know him.

1:15:49 Speaker 6 He’s in Netanya today, what’s his name.

1:15:50 Speaker 2 Isakovitch in Netanya?

1:15:51 Speaker 6 There’s an Isakovitch in Netanya.

1:15:53 Speaker 2 He was a mathematician. There was Guy Cohen, Guy Cohen. They were all teachers there. The principal’s son wanted to come for Shabbos too, but the principal was afraid. He saw the whole school becoming Chabad chassidim, and he didn’t want to let him. But the son came and pleaded, and he came for one Shabbos, and we worked on him. He wanted to come again, but his father wouldn’t let him. He’s an anesthesiologist. I wanted to meet him and remind him of what we’d discussed about Dr. Disadis[?]. You understand? But there was real momentum. We would also hold Chabad evenings. Boruch Feldner[?] was an expert at handling questions and answers at those Chabad evenings. You understand what I’m saying? The bachurim were a tremendous force in the yeshiva. And we would give classes at Lamartine. Yes, there was a young man—I actually met his daughter—Sudry. We got along. I used to learn with him and invite him for Shabbos retreats, to go over the material with him again at the yeshiva—

1:16:57 Speaker 7 What was his name?

1:16:57 Speaker 2 And he had some reservations; he didn’t want to become a Chabad chossid, and I would spend hours... Sudry, Sudry. There were two brothers, Chaim Sudry and Shimon Sudry. I worked a lot with Shimon Sudry. His daughter was here. A fine, chassidish family. They also had a brother in Eretz Yisroel. He worked in a warehouse; he was [unclear]. But those who were in Paris were already [unclear]. You understand? There was already [unclear] momentum. After we left, there may have been one more small group. After that, Moulia[?] went and rented places in the cities. People from his own group had already begun—

1:17:40 Speaker 7 They had already begun coming closer.

1:17:41 Speaker 2 They started, and they started Chabad Houses, but there weren’t any back then.

1:17:47 Speaker 7 So you arrived around Lag BaOmer. I want to go back for a moment to the Lag BaOmer gathering. There was a gathering where the Russians came from Eretz Yisroel, the ones who had left Russia.

1:17:54 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. I remember how it was at the yechidus, and with the box, how the Rebbe gave them special attention, and—

1:18:03 Speaker 7 What happened?

1:18:05 Speaker 2 There was, what’s his name, the one who—what’s he called? [unclear]. Friedman.

1:18:14 Speaker 7 Moshe Neslevitch.

1:18:15 Speaker 2 Neslevitch.

1:18:15 Speaker 7 Moshe Draglov.

1:18:16 Speaker 2 Yes. So in the middle of it, by the boxes, he nearly fainted. They brought him water. The Rebbe looked over like this. And afterward, when the box was finished, the Rebbe said, “Gezunte,” and the Rebbe smiled.

1:18:28 Speaker 7 He gestured to them with both hands.

1:18:29 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Did they tell you about that?

1:18:30 Speaker 7 No, I’m hearing it again now.

1:18:32 Speaker 2 It was at— The Rebbe was standing on the platform, and he was standing down on the right-hand side. And then there was the one who brought—[unclear]—Esther, you know, from Jerusalem, Esther. He dealt in silver coins. He brought silver coins to the Rebbe. He was excited. Chatronov.

1:18:50 Speaker 7 Chatronov.

1:18:51 Speaker 2 Leibel Chatronov.

1:18:51 Speaker 7 Leibel Chatronov. So what happened with the—

1:18:54 Speaker 2 There were a lot of Russians there; they stood out.

1:18:55 Speaker 7 Wait, what did Leibel Chatronov bring the Rebbe then?

1:18:57 Speaker 2 Silver coins. At first he brought silver coins.

1:19:02 Speaker 7 Mm-hmm.

1:19:04 Speaker 2 There’s a lot to talk about.

1:19:05 Speaker 7 I want to tell—

1:19:06 Speaker 2 We haven’t even reached the period of—

1:19:09 Speaker 7 Right.

1:19:09 Speaker 2 The shlichus.

1:19:10 Speaker 7 Or 5741. We still have plenty of time. Wait, let’s go in order. So after the Lag BaOmer gathering, you went back to Brunoy. You were already in the zal and involved in outreach too, and then Lag—

1:19:24 Speaker 2 We were there for two years.

1:19:25 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:19:25 Speaker 2 Afterward Rabbi Nissan asked—they had been there for three years.

1:19:30 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:19:30 Speaker 2 And after two years Rabbi Nissan asked whether we could come. So the Rebbe asked how our French was. The Rebbe knew that we barely knew French, so he told the Rebbe that we—who is “we”? Me, Gurevitch, Motti Sofer, Reb Shloime McCann, Levin, the son-in-law of [unclear] Fishkel Levin, and my brother Mendel [unclear]. There were five of us. Who else was there? That’s it. So the Rebbe asked—

1:20:00 Speaker 7 Was Rabbi Boruch there then?

1:20:01 Speaker 2 Rabbi Boruch was with the larger group.

1:20:04 Speaker 7 The expanded group.

1:20:05 Speaker 2 He brought him over. That’s a whole story.

1:20:06 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:20:07 Speaker 2 So, what was I going to tell you? The Rebbe asked how our French was. He said [unclear]. Then the Rebbe leaned a little on the arm of the chair and said, “If so, they can come.”

1:20:23 Speaker 7 What does “if so” mean?

1:20:24 Speaker 2 If so, we can—

1:20:25 Speaker 7 That they should come.

1:20:25 Speaker 2 We could stay in France rather than come. So we stayed in France.

1:20:30 Speaker 7 Meaning that you had been there for Tishrei, and the Rebbe, as it were, told you to stay in—

1:20:32 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:20:33 Speaker 7 In 5734, with the Rebbe.

1:20:34 Speaker 2 With the Rebbe. We stayed for 5735, or we traveled. Before Tishrei, the Rebbe had already said this to Rabbi Nissan in yechidus—in Shvat, I think, already in 5734. We traveled and stayed for 5735.

1:20:48 Speaker 7 By 5735, yechidus had stopped. So you didn’t go in for yechidus?

1:20:51 Speaker 2 What?

1:20:51 Speaker 7 In 5735, birthday yechidus stopped.

1:20:54 Speaker 2 I went in, I think. I’m very weak on dates.

1:20:58 Speaker 7 Yes, but did you ever go in for yechidus on your birthday?

1:21:02 Speaker 2 Honestly, mine was in Adar, but I don’t remember. I don’t remember. I can’t give you dates.

1:21:07 Speaker 7 No, no, no.

1:21:08 Speaker 2 I’m weak on years.

1:21:09 Speaker 7 I’ll leave the dates aside.

1:21:10 Speaker 2 I always was.

1:21:10 Speaker 7 I’m saying, you did have yechidus—what happened?

1:21:13 Speaker 2 What do you mean, what happened? Yechidus was yechidus. But what I want to tell you is—

1:21:17 Speaker 7 You just said that the elder chassidim didn’t talk about yechidus. You’re not that old an elder chossid; you can tell us.

1:21:21 Speaker 2 But no, there were little details, little details. Even at general yechidus, not everyone knew that you had to place the pan directly in the Rebbe’s hand. I saw one of the fellows, Reb Bruna, put his pan on the table at a general yechidus. The point is that the Rebbe holds it and you hold it. That’s how it works. Are you familiar with that?

1:21:43 Speaker 7 I don’t know anything. I’m listening.

1:21:45 Speaker 2 In yechidus, when you give the Rebbe a pan—

1:21:47 Speaker 7 The Rebbe’s holy hand and your hand are holding the same piece of paper.

1:21:50 Speaker 2 That’s how I was taught.

1:21:53 Speaker 7 So in yechidus you handed over the—

1:21:55 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:21:58 Speaker 7 But did the Rebbe read it with glasses or without glasses? Was that part of it too?

1:22:01 Speaker 2 With mine, it was without glasses. Never glasses.

1:22:03 Speaker 7 And was that explained too? Did anyone ever explain it? They said the Rebbe didn’t—no, that’s not it, that’s not it.

1:22:10 Speaker 2 What, what?

1:22:12 Speaker 7 I mean, whether it makes a difference between the eyes and the writing if you put a screen there or not. Never mind, maybe that’s the difference. A chassidic explanation.

1:22:20 Speaker 2 That’s it, that’s it.

1:22:22 Speaker 7 With yours, did the Rebbe ever read it without glasses?

1:22:24 Speaker 2 Yes. They would fast and go to the mikveh again before yechidus.

1:22:33 Speaker 7 They would fast all day.

1:22:34 Speaker 2 Yes. And look, you can’t describe it. Being at a farbrengen, looking at the Rebbe—it was a tremendous experience. It was an extraordinary attraction. Looking at the Rebbe, it was... I don’t know. You can’t explain it.

1:23:00 Speaker 7 Where did you stand?

1:23:00 Speaker 2 [unclear]. What?

1:23:02 Speaker 7 Where did you stand?

1:23:04 Speaker 2 For a while I stood on the pyramid [?], but afterward I stood opposite, there by the pillar.

1:23:12 Speaker 7 Could you hear well? In 5735, you could hear well.

1:23:14 Speaker 2 Afterward I would get myself, uh, a seat.

1:24:07 Speaker 7 Uh.

1:24:07 Speaker 2 I would get up at three in the morning, and—so that was with Teitelbaum, uh, Leizer Teitelbaum. There’s a lot to tell about Bruna, but I think—

1:24:19 Speaker 7 Wait, we’ll come back to Bruna in a moment. I want to hear a little about 5735 with the Rebbe.

1:24:23 Speaker 2 Oh, in 5735 I came to the Rebbe, and we started our life there. Now, Aryeh Lieberman told me, “I have a room for you.” Aryeh Lieberman was the landlord, uh, Gamaliel’s landlord. You know Aryeh—Aryeh Yankel.

1:24:43 Speaker 7 May he be well, from Miami.

1:24:44 Speaker 2 Yes, may he be well. So he had a room on Sanford [?], and there was another bed there, Chaim’le Wilshansky’s, may he be well. Chaim’le Wilshansky didn’t sleep there, so I slept there. He took a liking to me, and I stayed. Then he said to me, “I’m getting married now. Take the room, and tell Wilshansky too.” It even had an air conditioner. By the way, they thought it was a television. You know the story.

1:25:13 Speaker 7 No.

1:25:14 Speaker 2 He had an air conditioner, and when Springer and Mentlik came to inspect, they thought it was a television.

1:25:23 Speaker 7 They were doing an inspection in the dormitory.

1:25:25 Speaker 2 The dormitory. And I’d already found a wardrobe, and I was about to—once he got married, that is. I slept in his room, but afterward I’d have a proper room of my own.

1:25:36 Speaker 7 [unclear].

1:25:37 Speaker 2 And then the year 5735 began, and the Rebbe spoke about the shlichus to Eretz Hakodesh.

1:25:44 Speaker 7 The year 5735?

1:25:45 Speaker 2 5736.

1:25:47 Speaker 7 5736.

1:25:48 Speaker 2 5736. Of course, 5736. In 5736, the Rebbe spoke about shlichus. Yes. So everyone signed up. It was understood: not Israelis, not those about to get married, not those involved in shidduchim, and not those who already had jobs, and so on. Now, there was a lot of curiosity, so people would follow Binyamin to see whom he—

1:26:17 Speaker 7 Whom he called in.

1:26:18 Speaker 2 Whom he called in, [unclear]. Because he would call a bochur and ask whether he had any health problems, whether his parents agreed, and whether he wasn’t involved in a shidduch.

1:26:30 Speaker 7 In other words, the Rebbe said enthusiastically that he would send bochurim too.

1:26:32 Speaker 2 The Rebbe said—no, the Rebbe said he wanted to send a holy group to Jerusalem, to the Old City, and a holy group to Tzfas. But afterward there were qualifications. At the time, they didn’t know whether it would be bochurim or married men, so everyone signed up. Then the Rebbe said: not Israelis, not those working in education, and not older people—though some older people are young too. But they would have to work at finding the right people. Now, here’s what happened. On Thursday night—I’m getting to it and finishing the story—Meir Harlig and Yisroelik Brod were here, Yossel Brod from Los Angeles. Do you know him?

1:27:20 Speaker 7 California, yes.

1:27:21 Speaker 2 Yes, California. [unclear] would sometimes call on the phone that was here in the hallway.

1:27:27 Speaker 7 Not a mobile phone—a public phone.

1:27:28 Speaker 2 A public phone on the wall.

1:27:30 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:27:30 Speaker 2 To tell the alcoholic to stop bothering him, to stop [unclear]. He couldn’t sleep. In short, [unclear]. So they offered me a bottle of wine to drink with me if I told them I’d been selected. I said, “I wasn’t selected. Nobody’s told me anything.” And nobody really had. Later, I went back to my brother Pitche’s place, and they said Goldberg was going. As for the married men, I already knew which ones were going.

1:28:04 Speaker 7 Who was Goldberg?

1:28:05 Speaker 2 Elik Friedman, uh, and Wilshansky, Yeshaya—who else was there? Uh, Bastritzky and Sholom and Aharon’che ben Hendel, uh, Rosenfeld. There were eight families. Eight families.

1:28:25 Speaker 7 To Tzfas.

1:28:26 Speaker 2 To Tzfas. But they still didn’t know about Jerusalem. On Friday I decided I needed to know: yes or no. By the way, my brother Pitche wrote a letter to the Rebbe. You should interview him sometime. He was together with Goldberg.

1:28:49 Speaker 7 A friend of Goldberg’s.

1:28:50 Speaker 2 Yes, his chavrusa too. So, uh, at his place there was a shochet in 5735 whom the Rebbe had invested a lot in—Lachyani from Marseille. It was his first visit to the Rebbe. He stayed with my brother because he was a French Jew.

1:29:09 Speaker 7 Rabbi Yaakov Lachyani.

1:29:10 Speaker 2 Not Yaakov. He passed away in Netanya.

1:29:16 Speaker 7 Yes, in Netanya.

1:29:16 Speaker 2 You knew him.

1:29:17 Speaker 7 Yes, Grenville [?] or something like that, no?

1:29:19 Speaker 2 No, he was from Marseille.

1:29:20 Speaker 7 Marseille.

1:29:22 Speaker 2 So he asked my brother—my brother had also signed up—to write. My brother said, “I signed up for this shlichus.” But he said they didn’t know whether it would actually happen, because once the Rebbe had spoken about having ten people [unclear] in [unclear], and nothing had come of it in practice.

1:29:45 Speaker 7 Right.

1:29:45 Speaker 2 So he submitted a note, and the Rebbe answered him: “Marseille.” Afterward he felt bad that he’d ruined his own chances, so he wrote the Rebbe a very pained letter. The Rebbe answered him that everyone has their own birurim, and [unclear]; therefore, it wasn’t advisable to change.

1:30:03 Speaker 7 Meaning he wanted to change, as it were, from Marseille to Israel.

1:30:06 Speaker 2 It hurt him. That shliach had already [unclear] several times, and [unclear]. Now, on Friday I said, “I want to know.” I had a strange thought. I went into the secretariat and looked at Binyamin. By the way, Binyamin and I were very close. But Binyamin didn’t react to me at all. So that was it, I thought. There were people there—not members of the staff in the secretariat, but people from outside. I left. Every Friday I would go to visit wounded people, and it was hard for me to leave them. I would arrive back at the last minute, at candle-lighting time, run to the mikveh, daven Minchah with the Rebbe, and then go get dressed. That was my routine. Now, while I was with the wounded people, a strange thought occurred to me: maybe the Rebbe wants to choose someone. With the Rebbe, everything happened quickly, and if I’m now—

1:31:13 Speaker 7 Not there, I’ll miss out.

1:31:14 Speaker 2 If I’m with the wounded people, I’ll miss out. I had this strange thought that I was ruining my own chances. That’s what I thought. But if the reason was that I was putting tefillin on people, well, that gave me a little comfort. Listen, I came back as usual and went to the mikveh. There I met Sholom Duchman. Sholom Duchman said, “You know, Ishke Gurevitch is going to be a shliach. And Ber Shur, and Sholom.” Then he said, “Sounds like you are too.” I said, “No.”

1:31:44 Speaker 7 Those are your friends.

1:31:45 Speaker 2 Yes. I said, “No.” I went crazy. You know what I mean? Because the Rebbe had said, “Those who are thinking about shidduchim shouldn’t...” And Dovid Raskin had been pestering my brothers about a shidduch for me. I hadn’t been thinking about it. I thought he’d ruined it for me.

1:32:03 Speaker 7 And Dovid said you were busy with shidduchim.

1:32:05 Speaker 2 Yes, maybe. I was really upset. And Mentlik had been pestering me [unclear]. So I thought I’d get back at them and everyone connected to them. Anyway, listen: I came to [unclear], and Ber Shur said to me, “So, you’re going too?” I said, “No, nobody’s told me anything.” He said, “That can’t be.” I said, “It can’t be? I wouldn’t lie to you.” There was such a commotion: had you been selected or not? And I’d heard what Binyamin was asking—whether you had any medical problems and whether your parents agreed. I knew my parents were completely fine with it, and health-wise, boruch Hashem, I felt fine. But they’d gotten me terribly anxious. I went straight to get dressed, then came back and said, “I’m going to knock on the secretariat door.” After Minchah there was no electricity in the secretariat, and Binyamin Klein and Chadakov’s son were always sitting there.

1:33:12 Speaker 7 Sholom Yisroel.

1:33:13 Speaker 2 Sholom Yisroel, and a few other fellows. I said, “I’ll knock and ask Binyamin. I won’t get worked up. Yes or no—what’s the answer?”

1:33:22 Speaker 7 Meaning this was Friday night, after the Shabbos meal?

1:33:25 Speaker 2 Before the Shabbos meal, after Minchah. I knocked. Binyamin opened the door and said, “Fellows, go out.” Then he said to me, “Do you have any health problems?” I said, “Boruch Hashem, no.” He said, “Do your parents agree?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “If so, you’ve been selected.” I went out. I’d been selected. Yes. So I had all that... Only one person didn’t make it public. One person didn’t make it public.

1:33:50 Speaker 7 Wait, but the Rebbe sent your group to Jerusalem.

1:33:52 Speaker 2 Wait, wait, wait.

1:33:53 Speaker 7 Oh, sorry, that’s not it.

1:33:54 Speaker 2 Wait. And why did it come out to eleven? Why eleven, eleven? The Rebbe said the group was ten: ten for Jerusalem, ten for Tzfas. Why? The Rebbe said that since it would be delayed a week or two, they should add one or two to each group of ten. So they added one. Now, in Tzfas there were eight families and three bochurim who had been on shlichus in Australia. There was [unclear], and [unclear]. So they were with them. In Jerusalem there were only bochurim, eleven bochurim. They didn’t know who the one extra person was. But someone told me in confidence, so I already knew who it was. In the middle of the Shabbos farbrengen, the Rebbe said that everyone who had been chosen should say l’chaim, but nobody noticed that he said l’chaim too. Why was he waiting? There was one person in France. You can guess who it was. He said he had to ask his parents. I did it differently. I said—

1:35:02 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:35:03 Speaker 2 On Motzaei Shabbos, I went to my parents and asked them, as though they didn’t know I’d already told people. They said it was fine. So it worked out for me both ways, you understand?

1:35:13 Speaker 7 I said this year—I don’t know whether it’s right or not—but what happened here will surely come out that way: eleven and eleven. That was good for [unclear]. This year marks twenty-five years since 11 Shvat, and you left on 11 Shvat.

1:35:32 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:35:33 Speaker 7 So maybe it has something to do with eleven and eleven.

1:35:36 Speaker 2 But in any case—

1:35:37 Speaker 7 We have to take eleven.

1:35:38 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

1:35:39 Speaker 7 So perhaps you could say that.

1:35:41 Speaker 2 The Rebbe said, the Rebbe said one or two.

1:35:43 Speaker 7 Yes. That’s what I’m saying.

1:35:44 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes, yes.

1:35:45 Speaker 7 Not like—

1:35:46 Speaker 2 When we went in.

1:35:47 Speaker 7 I mean, the way chassidim would say it.

1:35:48 Speaker 2 When we went in.

1:35:48 Speaker 7 Maybe it’s connected to the twenty-fifth anniversary of 11 Shvat, when the Rebbe made [unclear].

1:35:53 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes.

1:35:53 Speaker 7 A major development.

1:35:55 Speaker 2 And when we went in for yechidus in Gan Hatachton, Mrs. Greisman was standing there crying.

1:36:04 Speaker 7 They didn’t have children.

1:36:06 Speaker 2 Yes. So the Rebbe said, “Why are you crying? You should be happy. You’re going to the Holy Land; you should be happy.” And someone else asked for a bracha, and I asked for one for my father too.

1:36:16 Speaker 7 What did you ask for?

1:36:17 Speaker 2 A bracha for my father, that my father should feel well.

1:36:19 Speaker 7 Your father wasn’t feeling well then?

1:36:21 Speaker 2 He had trouble with his legs, with the... So the Rebbe turned to—“Is this your doing too, Leibel? Did you arrange for them to ask?”

1:36:33 Speaker 7 Wait, let’s put this in order for a second. Before that, when you got to the yeshiva, at the farbrengen on Yud-Tes Kislev, the Rebbe brought up the trip. The whole month and a half—

1:36:43 Speaker 2 Yes, but when it became public, that was—

1:36:44 Speaker 7 The month and a half was spent making arrangements—

1:36:46 Speaker 2 Through the Jewish Agency.

1:36:47 Speaker 7 Arranging documents and all the examinations. Then on Yud Shvat the Rebbe held a farbrengen, as it were, and said that this was a farbrengen in your honor, uh—

1:36:54 Speaker 2 A farewell gathering.

1:36:56 Speaker 7 Right.

1:36:56 Speaker 2 Then, the day after Yud Shvat, the Rebbe received us in Gan Hatachton.

1:37:00 Speaker 7 Right. Slowly, slowly. When did he receive you? There was Mincha, right?

1:37:04 Speaker 2 In the evening, in the evening. Around seven, I think—

1:37:06 Speaker 7 On 11 Shvat.

1:37:07 Speaker 2 Yes. He received us in Gan Hatachton and handed each of us Likkutei Sichos, volume 11. It was fresh from the bindery. The binding still had a rubber band around it, though someone published that it had cardboard around it. It came from the bindery; I still have mine.

1:37:21 Speaker 7 And what did the women receive? The married women—a siddur?

1:37:25 Speaker 2 A siddur, I think. And Mrs. Greisman was crying, and the Rebbe said... Afterward, Leibel nudged Greisman to ask.

1:37:32 Speaker 7 Reb Shmuel.

1:37:34 Speaker 2 Then a few others asked, and I asked too. So the Rebbe turned to [unclear]. Because, you know, the Rebbe wanted the shlichus now without any display—that’s how I understand it. Afterward, the Rebbe came out to see us off. I was standing to the side by my brother’s car.

1:37:48 Speaker 7 The Rebbe came out as far as the entrance to 770.

1:37:49 Speaker 2 The Rebbe stood outside—

1:37:51 Speaker 7 At the entrance to 770.

1:37:52 Speaker 2 Until everyone had gone past. And Leibel... I was last, because I had a ride and I wanted to look at the Rebbe, so I stayed till last.

1:38:01 Speaker 7 And then you went straight to Israel?

1:38:02 Speaker 2 We traveled through England; there was a stop in England. From England we came to the Old City. The Rebbe said we should daven at the Tzemach Tzedek. And Mendelik... We needed to eat, so they took us to Lod to eat. And what did they give us—

1:38:24 Speaker 7 You mean after the airport.

1:38:26 Speaker 2 From the airport. There was a whole procession at the airport when we arrived. People came to welcome us. And dinner in Lod was what they serve in yeshiva. For us Americans, we were used to living on very little too. The Frenchmen, the vegetables... [unclear].

1:38:43 Speaker 7 The Frenchmen were used to [unclear]. The Americans had something to eat.

1:38:48 Speaker 2 Yes, there was something to eat. They gave us two olives and half a tomato. Anyway, from there we went to the Old City, until we reached the Tzemach Tzedek.

1:38:59 Speaker 7 Did Rabbi Mendelik travel with you or with the Frenchmen?

1:39:01 Speaker 2 Yes, with us. Mendelik was with us. [Unclear]. He stayed at the Glisenstein family’s home.

1:39:08 Speaker 7 Right.

1:39:09 Speaker 2 After that we came to the dormitories to sleep, and there was—

1:39:14 Speaker 7 Were the dormitories already at Chorev Me’ah then, or still in Be’er Yaakov?

1:39:17 Speaker 2 Chorev Me’ah, Chorev Me’ah.

1:39:18 Speaker 7 Chorev Me’ah.

1:39:19 Speaker 2 And that’s where we slept. In the morning, after the learning schedule, davening and eating, they’d take us in a van—the kind used to carry babies and chickens, you know, with those little benches. They’d take us to the Old City until noon. At noon the van would come pick us up and bring us back to the dormitories, where we’d eat lunch, and then the van would come again.

1:39:44 Speaker 7 You’d go back to learn at the Tzemach Tzedek.

1:39:45 Speaker 2 Then the van would come again to take us back to sleep. By the way, Chanoch was the administrator, and he was having trouble managing things. Tuvia Blau was at [unclear], so Chanoch wrote him a letter saying the situation was very difficult: the yeshiva had no money, especially now that the shluchim had arrived. They needed money, including for the van going back and forth. Tuvia submitted it to the Rebbe. The Rebbe sent a note—I saw the note—saying, “Write to me how much it has cost to support the shluchim from the time they arrived until now.” He crossed out the vans. The Rebbe drew two lines through “the van,” and the tractor was [unclear].

1:40:39 Speaker 8 Wow!

1:40:42 Speaker 2 You don’t know this story. I also have a cassette; I have to find it. The Tzemach Tzedek yeshiva... The Rebbe said they should learn at the Tzemach Tzedek in the Old City. People got scared. Eleven Americans had arrived and turned the whole place upside down. They were frightened. There were Jerusalemites there. So Shmulik Shleisner, a"h, and [unclear], and Chaim Shalom Deutsch called Rabbi Chadakov. I have the cassette. They asked him, and he said, “They are shluchim on a holy mission. They are a separate group; they don’t belong to the community. Of course, if they have questions and turn to the head of the community to ask him, he won’t hold back from answering them.” In other words, he reassured them that it wasn’t—

1:41:45 Speaker 8 Wow!

1:41:45 Speaker 2 Ah, ah, ah.

1:41:47 Speaker 8 All right, I want to go back for a moment to when you were bochurim. So—

1:41:51 Speaker 2 We were at the Tzemach Tzedek.

1:41:53 Speaker 8 No, I’m going back a moment—to when you were with the Rebbe that whole year.

1:41:57 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:41:58 Speaker 8 You arrived in Tishrei, and basically until you left, you were there continuously.

1:42:02 Speaker 2 Certainly, certainly.

1:42:02 Speaker 8 It was a special year too. All the sichos the Rebbe said that winter, about what people were saying about Lubavitch.

1:42:10 Speaker 2 Oh, oh, oh, oh. I even have detailed notes that I need to find—things they didn’t print. About the tanks, about “hooliganism and terrorism in Lubavitch,” both things that were in the Forverts. Certainly, certainly.

1:42:28 Speaker 8 So tell us a little about it.

1:42:29 Speaker 2 We lived through it. What a year that was! And because of... playing music on the tanks—

1:42:36 Speaker 8 Wait, tell us a little of what you can. There was a Jew who—without names.

1:42:40 Speaker 2 Wait, wait. This is how it was. Before Shabbos they sent out the tanks for a week of mivtzoim. We’d drive around with music, and many times the Rebbe would arrive and the tanks would set out in front of the Rebbe, and we’d do mivtzoim. In the middle of that period there was an incident—

1:43:08 Speaker 8 Without names, come on.

1:43:09 Speaker 2 They wanted someone to sign something about Who Is a Jew, and he didn’t want to sign.

1:43:14 Speaker 8 One of the rabbis.

1:43:15 Speaker 2 Yes, and—

1:43:17 Speaker 8 One of his relatives wrote—

1:43:19 Speaker 2 Wait, wait. People did various things to him, to his door and the locks. So his son-in-law wrote an article in the Forverts.

1:43:30 Speaker 8 The Forverts was a newspaper—

1:43:31 Speaker 2 A Yiddish newspaper that came out once a week. He wrote an article there, and the headline was “Hooliganism and Terrorism in the Court of Lubavitch.” He attacked the Rebbe, saying that the Rebbe had turned it into—and decided to farbreng about—the politics of Who Is a Jew, and with “iron feet,” you know.

1:43:57 Speaker 8 With—

1:43:59 Speaker 2 That he wanted—

1:43:59 Speaker 8 Quotation marks.

1:44:00 Speaker 2 In quotation marks. In Yiddish: “Mit ayzerne fislekh.”

1:44:03 Speaker 8 Yes.

1:44:03 Speaker 2 “Iron feet.” And supposedly he went to [unclear], and all this was terrorism and so on. So that Shabbos the Rebbe spoke and said, “I thought all night about whether to respond to this or not. On the one hand, who even reads that newspaper anymore? The newspaper is... But I decided that since they drive around in the tanks with music—no, no, playing music in the middle of town isn’t a Jewish custom.”

1:44:40 Speaker 8 That’s what he wrote.

1:44:41 Speaker 2 We put tefillin on people too. So the Rebbe said at the farbrengen, “I thought all night about whether to address this, but since it could discourage even one Jew from putting on tefillin, I decided that I must.” The Rebbe said, “Ich bin der baal habayis fun chatzer Lubavitch”—“I am the one in charge of Lubavitch, and I say there is no hooliganism and no terrorism. Whoever does that has no connection to me.” And he explicitly said it was permitted to drive around with music. “I stand with every one of the tankists who put tefillin on Jews.” And a Chassidic farbrengen—that really is something that can reach a Jew. I consulted someone who had studied it with him... studied it in depth. After that, there were three more articles about the tour. This was on a weekday, on 15 Shvat.

1:45:47 Speaker 8 Yes, Thursday, 15 Shvat.

1:45:49 Speaker 2 So the Rebbe said that a million-dollar complaint could be filed against the newspaper. They said that Avraham Shalom Tov brought in some major lawyer, who established that they could sue for a million dollars in damages for defamation and that the newspaper would have to apologize for printing things that weren’t true. That happened. But we had to stay, and because of it they added another week in Israel. We would drive past his house with music and all that.

1:46:27 Speaker 8 In other words, they added an eighth week with the tanks.

1:46:32 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:46:32 Speaker 8 After you arrived in Israel.

1:46:33 Speaker 2 So we were at the Tzemach Tzedek.

1:46:36 Speaker 8 Mm-hmm.

1:46:36 Speaker 2 Eventually we decided: Why keep driving back and forth? Let him bring the food to the Tzemach Tzedek so we wouldn’t have to make ten trips. That was a hassle too.

1:46:44 Speaker 8 Mm-hmm.

1:46:45 Speaker 2 Anyway, we were studying. On Thursdays we had a class with Rabbi Zalman Nechemia Goldberg on dayanus, and afterward he tested us. He called it “semichah.” But we were thinking, where could we bring in the Rebbe? For example, after Purim we went out on a trip. I saw lots of police in the Old City. I said, “We need to find out what’s going on.” The policemen didn’t want to say, but there were lots of mishloach manos left at the Tzemach Tzedek, because it was Purim there. So I took a sack of mishloach manos and handed them out to the policemen. Then one policeman told me that Yitzchak Rabin was coming. He was the head of the Civil Guard in the Old City. I said to Gurevitch, “I’m staying. Do you want to stay? I’m staying. We need to spread the Rebbe’s message.” So we both stayed. The minister Shlomo Hillel was there; he was the police minister. I shook his hand.

1:47:43 Speaker 8 His name was Shlomo Hillel.

1:47:45 Speaker 2 Yes. I shook his hand and told him the whole story about Itchke Gurevitch. That’s another story, by the way.

1:47:50 Speaker 8 That story happened maybe the day before.

1:47:52 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:47:52 Speaker 8 It was connected to the story about Shalom.

1:47:54 Speaker 2 I have my own version of that story.

1:47:56 Speaker 8 Then tell it.

1:47:57 Speaker 2 My version goes like this. Army vehicles came to Shuk Chabad on Purim to pick up groups to visit the army. So I—

1:48:10 Speaker 8 Army vehicles came.

1:48:11 Speaker 2 Yes, army vehicles. They would take us and bring us back with the mishloach manos. They brought us back to Shuk Chabad; there was a kind of open square there, if you know it.

1:48:17 Speaker 8 It’s still there.

1:48:18 Speaker 2 Yes, an open square. I was supposed to go with Itchke Gurevitch, and I didn’t want to say no. Each group had a different shliach. I said, “Fine, no problem.” So Itchke Gurevitch went. If I’m not mistaken, the elder Segal was with him too.

1:48:32 Speaker 8 Yankel Volchon[?].

1:48:33 Speaker 2 Yes, the one who was the gabbai.

1:48:34 Speaker 8 The gabbai.

1:48:35 Speaker 2 The gabbai.

1:48:35 Speaker 8 Yankel Volchon[?].

1:48:35 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Did you know him?

1:48:37 Speaker 8 No.

1:48:38 Speaker 2 Anyway, Itchke went and I went. We came back at night, around one—quarter to eleven at night, if I remember correctly. Itchke Gurevitch wasn’t sure what to do. Back then, we Temimim would tell these things to Gittel Stein, and Gittel Stein would inform the Rebbe. We didn’t know he was calling collect, meaning at the secretariat’s expense. We didn’t know. Anyway, we found out afterward, and then we learned that we could call that way too.

1:49:10 Speaker 8 That if it was possible to call at the secretariat’s expense, we could report things too.

1:49:13 Speaker 2 Exactly. Anyway, we came to Chanoch and Itchke told him the story. So Chanoch said—

1:49:19 Speaker 8 The story was that they were at the checkpoint, and they—

1:49:22 Speaker 2 They threw stones, and he wanted to turn back. He said, “I’m going as the Rebbe’s shliach, and if I have to, I’ll go on foot.” He told the driver, “Step on the gas,” and they... Anyway, Chanoch said, “Go to sleep.” Chanoch was kaltblutik—very coolheaded.

1:49:38 Speaker 8 Levelheaded.

1:49:39 Speaker 2 Yes, very coolheaded. So he said, calmly, “Go to sleep.” I said to Itchke—and this was my initiative; I’ll take the credit where it’s due—“Do you want to? Come, let’s go to Tchebin. There’s a public phone there by the post office, and we’ll call collect.” “All right.” I went with Itchke and called collect.

1:50:02 Speaker 8 From the public phone at the Tchebin yeshiva.

1:50:04 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:50:04 Speaker 8 Across the way.

1:50:04 Speaker 2 Yes, across the way, a little way up Chana Street.

1:50:07 Speaker 8 A little higher up, on the slope of the...

1:50:08 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Binyamin answered, and I handed Gurevitch the receiver, and he told him the story. That’s the story. Afterward, the Rebbe addressed it.

1:50:19 Speaker 8 At the farbrengen[?], a few hours later.

1:50:21 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. The Rebbe spoke about it at length.

1:50:22 Speaker 8 Yes.

1:50:24 Speaker 2 Back to our subject.

1:50:26 Speaker 8 You told Shlomo Hillel, the police minister.

1:50:28 Speaker 2 The story. Afterward Rabin arrived.

1:50:32 Speaker 8 What position did he hold then?

1:50:33 Speaker 2 He was prime minister.

1:50:34 Speaker 8 So he was prime minister at the time.

1:50:35 Speaker 2 Things weren’t like today. I shook his hand. I could get close to him, so I shook his hand and told him. I started telling him the story, and the vehicle he was riding in was a van. There wasn’t a—

1:50:46 Speaker 8 Anything substantial, like an honor guard.

1:50:48 Speaker 2 Yes, like today. He didn’t have much patience for me. So he said, “That will come too.” Later there was a situation with Labkowski—“That will come too.” But here’s the thing: I stood there and they took pictures. There was a picture of me on one side and Segal, Moshe Segal, on the other. It appeared on the back page of Yedioth Ahronoth. I sent it to the Rebbe with the motorcycle group. I have the book; there’s actually a photocopy of that newspaper in it. There were lots of pictures, and I looked for the photographer but couldn’t find her. Anyway, afterward we sat down, and I told the fellows, “We need the Rebbe’s broadcast to be heard at the Kosel.” Why? Because, if you remember, there was a year when the Rebbe didn’t go out in—

1:51:38 Speaker 8 In public.

1:51:38 Speaker 2 In public. And the Rebbe said that there was a physical pleasure in having his voice heard at Rabbi Shimon’s.

1:51:45 Speaker 8 On Lag BaOmer, the Rebbe said that he himself would have liked to be there in public.

1:51:49 Speaker 2 Yes. No, but there’s a physical pleasure in it, even on the part of the G-dly soul.

1:51:52 Speaker 8 That “I too, I too”—the Rebbe said it to convey that it pained him too that, in practice, he had the pleasure of being heard but could not actually go out.

1:51:59 Speaker 2 “I can’t.” And the Rebbe told a story about the Tzemach Tzedek: he wrote a pidyon concerning a decree against a Jew, and when it did not succeed, the Rebbe wept. So I said, “We need to do it at the Kosel.” Someone looked at me. I said, “I’ll go to the rabbi. I have no problem with that.” I took Itchke Gurevitch and Boruch Boruch, if I’m not mistaken, and went in to the rabbi. I was—

1:52:18 Speaker 8 Rabbi Getz.

1:52:19 Speaker 2 Yes. I had a mission: wherever we could, we had to spread the Rebbe’s message. I came to Rabbi Getz and said, “We’re the Rebbe’s shluchim. We want to broadcast it over a loudspeaker.” The Idra was upstairs; there was a loudspeaker—

1:52:31 Speaker 8 The Idra yeshiva.

1:52:32 Speaker 2 Yes. The yeshiva was a—

1:52:34 Speaker 8 Kollel.

1:52:35 Speaker 2 He had two study partners with whom he studied the mathematics of [unclear]. Never mind, we won’t get into that. Wait. I said we needed to do it. At the time there were no bathrooms there; the bathrooms were off to the side. We said, “All right,” and started doing the—

1:52:55 Speaker 8 Broadcasts.

1:52:55 Speaker 2 Broadcasts. Broadcasts. Yud-Beis Tammuz. After a broadcast we would go up to Getz, then plan around the sichos, and I began investing a lot of time in my relationship with Getz. I spent a lot of time with him. He became... He told me [unclear], and I wrote up all the reports about the Kosel and sent them to the Rebbe through him.

1:53:20 Speaker 8 What do you mean, what reports?

1:53:22 Speaker 2 About what was happening at the Kosel.

1:53:23 Speaker 8 Yes.

1:53:23 Speaker 2 Once, Carlebach wanted permission to hold all kinds of festivities there. Rabbi Getz put a stop to it and circulated notes against it unofficially. I sent everything to the Rebbe, everything.

1:53:33 Speaker 8 Did he know you were sending it to the Rebbe?

1:53:34 Speaker 2 Yes. I was—I told you, I was close to him.

1:53:37 Speaker 8 No, did he tell you these things so that you would write to the Rebbe?

1:53:39 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. I connected him with the Rebbe, and he would receive HaNoar VehaTamim and the maamarim, because the sichos weren’t available in Hebrew translation then. He received the maamarim directly from HaNoar VehaTamim.

1:53:50 Speaker 8 Mm-hmm.

1:53:50 Speaker 2 He knew the mathematics of Kabbalah. Later he called himself the head of the Kabbalists. No, we won’t get into that. My whole relationship with Rabbi Getz is a story in itself.

1:54:02 Speaker 8 No, it’s interesting.

1:54:02 Speaker 2 Listen, listen, because... Yud-Beis Tammuz—you can check this. It was either nine-twenty or twenty to ten; don’t hold me to the exact time. Yitzchak Rafael arrived at the Kosel. There was a broadcast at the Kosel. He came—I don’t know why he came. Suddenly—

1:54:21 Speaker 8 Oh, was he the minister of religious affairs?

1:54:23 Speaker 2 Yes. And he arrived—it was nineteen, something like that, nineteen. And he heard the broadcast, the whole thing from the Rebbe. So Rabbi Getz told me that the Minister of Religious Affairs had been there, had come into his office, and had said, “I’m missing one more front with Chabad. I need another front.” You could fall off your chair. That’s what he told me. So I went and verified it for the news.

1:54:50 Speaker 8 From the minister.

1:54:50 Speaker 2 Yes, from the minister. Yes. Suddenly Shalom Duchman comes and says to me—

1:54:57 Speaker 8 He was also one of the shluchim.

1:54:58 Speaker 2 Yes, he was one of the shluchim, certainly. He comes and tells me, “I was at the office in Lod with Ephraim Wolf, and Ephraim Wolf received instructions that the Rebbe is sending a letter to Getz. The letter might take three weeks to arrive. The Rebbe wanted him to know about the letter before then, so we should copy it, so he should copy it there—

1:55:21 Speaker 8 Now, they dictated the letter to him over the phone for Ephraim to copy.

1:55:24 Speaker 2 To copy it and give it to those dealing with Rabbi Getz, so they could bring it to him and tell him that a letter was on its way. Now, I said—

1:55:37 Speaker 8 Mm-hmm.

1:55:37 Speaker 2 It was on Agudas Chassidei Chabad letterhead, that kind of letterhead, with green lines, so that, G-d forbid, two sheets wouldn’t get attached together [unclear]. No sense wasting a sheet: the entire letter was on one page. We came to Getz. Getz used to recite Tikkun Chatzos, by the way, with deep feeling. [Unclear] spreading Torah and its mitzvos, and the Rebbe gave him a blessing. That was it. Now, Chadakov told me to speak with Rabbi Wolf, so that Rabbi Wolf would arrange it through Rabbi Dolgin. Rabbi Dolgin was an American, and here in Israel there’s respect for Americans. Even an American who lives in Israel gets respect. So Rabbi Dolgin was a friend.

1:56:52 Speaker 9 You called—

1:56:53 Speaker 2 That I should speak with Rabbi—

1:56:54 Speaker 9 That’s what happened, because Rabbi Chadakov told you to—

1:56:56 Speaker 2 That I should speak with Rabbi Wolf, and Rabbi Wolf would arrange things through Rabbi Dolgin.

1:56:59 Speaker 9 When you called.

1:57:00 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:57:00 Speaker 9 Meaning beforehand, independently of this letter.

1:57:02 Speaker 2 Yes. After the letter.

1:57:03 Speaker 9 After the letter. That you should call Rabbi Wolf, and Rabbi Wolf—

1:57:05 Speaker 2 That Rabbi Wolf should arrange a meeting with Dolgin—

1:57:07 Speaker 9 Dolgin.

1:57:07 Speaker 2 To sort things out.

1:57:08 Speaker 9 Dolgin was an American, and who was Dolgin?

1:57:11 Speaker 2 I called Rabbi Wolf.

1:57:12 Speaker 9 Wait, who was this Dolgin?

1:57:14 Speaker 2 Dolgin was—I think he was even, for a short time, if I’m not mistaken, a deputy [unclear]... ministry... He worked at the Ministry of Religious Affairs; he had some position there. There’s even a book about him and his connection with Chabad. He was—I think he was once director-general of the Ministry of Religious Affairs.

1:57:40 Speaker 9 Mm-hmm.

1:57:40 Speaker 2 If I’m not mistaken. Anyway, I called Rabbi Wolf. Nothing came of it. I informed the secretariat about the phone call. I changed the response a little. The next day Rabbi Wolf came to the Tzemach Tzedek with Berke Wolf [?]. I remembered that it was [unclear], but I’m not sure who [?] wrote it. I saw that it said “Berke Wolf” there. He came to the Tzemach Tzedek synagogue and looked for me. I came out. It was in the second room upstairs, where the women’s section was. He called me over there and told me, “I’ve arranged a meeting on such-and-such a day, at such-and-such a time, with the director-general of the Ministry of Religious Affairs, named Lippel.” Yes. We went to Lippel. Lippel told us, “I’m not against Chabad.” He was a Mizrachi man. And my father told me he was a Breslover, and he used to daven at the Tzemach Tzedek. There were two floors; downstairs there was a vasikin minyan, and he had some connection to Chabad. But what does it matter to the people davening [unclear]? So they lowered it. He backed down. But I kept it going. And it had been the same before that, too. At the Kosel it was really hard to hear unless it was quiet. And they sorted it out. After a year had passed, there were three impromptu farbrengens for the education campaign, all at the Kosel. Later, Anash complained to the Rebbe’s secretariat [unclear] that it was hard to travel to the Old City. Many of the rabbis did, and it stopped. But it went on for a year. I regret it to this day. It was my fault for not arranging it. I wanted [unclear] and Moshe Shmuel [?]; I should have gotten up and done it myself. It’s a shame I didn’t arrange it, because the Rebbe was pleased with it.

1:59:34 Speaker 9 Even now, fifty years later, every summer without fail.

1:59:37 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes. And there was a farbrengen where the Rebbe asked whether they had heard it at the Kosel. It had to do with—they wanted to put a flag on the roof, a PLO flag or a [unclear] flag; I don’t know what it was. So the Rebbe asked whether they had heard it. And in one of his letters to Rabbi Getz, the Rebbe wrote, “From time to time I receive greetings from you through our mutual friend.” The Rebbe wrote that—Sheicher used to say.

2:00:05 Speaker 9 A last name?

2:00:07 Speaker 2 No, without a name.

2:00:08 Speaker 9 “Our mutual friend,” Sheicher.

2:00:09 Speaker 2 “Our mutual friends,” Sheicher—with, with, Sheicher. The Rebbe wrote it in his own handwriting.

2:00:14 Speaker 9 He wrote it? Wow.

2:00:15 Speaker 2 I have a photocopy of the letter. I have some originals, and some I don’t.

2:00:20 Speaker 9 My brother, Rabbi Getz had a very close connection with him.

2:00:22 Speaker 2 Rabbi Getz told me that a Jew had come and said he wanted to—or later I decided that at the entrance to the Kosel, in the Jewish Quarter, we needed to put up all the mivtzoim. A sign listing all the mivtzoim. I simply went to Rabbi Getz and told him we needed a sign with all the mivtzoim, but he insisted that it also be in French, Hebrew, English, and Arabic. All right? And there should be a panel where we could put up each new mivtza as it came along. I came to Getz and said, “What do we do? We need to...” So Getz told me, “Listen, there’s a dispute over the Jewish Quarter: whether it belongs to the Jerusalem municipality, to the Quarter, or to the Ministry of Religious Affairs. So officially I can’t give you permission, but I’m with you.” Up until the story we’ll get to, if we have time today, about the excavations there, he was also something like the head of the police arrangements, the—

2:01:32 Speaker 9 Yeshivos.

2:01:33 Speaker 2 No. The police guarded the place. So he was one of the people who arranged the shifts. He said, “There’s a shift of Arab policemen. They weren’t from the Kosel. So here’s what we’ll do: listen, I’ll come during the Arab policemen’s shift, and I’ll bring you along. If anyone looks, they’ll see us inspecting the site, looking around. No note, nothing at all. Then prepare the sign and tell me. I’ll tell you which day those, those—

2:02:05 Speaker 9 Those.

2:02:06 Speaker 2 Those Arabs.

2:02:07 Speaker 9 That shift.

2:02:08 Speaker 2 That shift of Arab policemen is on, and then you won’t have any problems.”

2:02:11 Speaker 9 Because they’d already seen Rabbi Getz with you, inspecting the site.

2:02:15 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, and I hadn’t done anything. I said, “Rabbi Getz, fine, we’ll let the Rebbe know. That’s perfectly fine.” So we made a sign. It cost ten dollars, and we came to put it up. I brought his fellows along. A policeman came over. “What’s this?” I said, “Can’t you see? Didn’t you see Rabbi Getz here for several days last week?” I said, “I spent money on it—dollars, shekels, or liras, I don’t know what it was then—and I’m not going to put it up?” “All right.” So we put up the sign. There it was, a sign. But then I wanted to arrange electricity so that—

2:02:55 Speaker 9 It would shine on the sign.

2:02:56 Speaker 2 There’s a pole there where we could put some kind of spotlight. I couldn’t get that done, but the sign was there. Suddenly Rabbi Getz told me he’d received a letter: some non-Jew, a French minister, had visited the Kosel and seen the sign. So he sent a letter: What does it mean to love every Jew? Isn’t a non-Jew a human being? So the Israeli consulate sent it here to the government. The government sent it to the Ministry of Religious Affairs. The ministry sent it to Getz to answer. Getz told me, “I answered that this is a Jewish state. When it says ‘all Jews,’ it means everyone.” But there was a response to it. I informed the Rebbe. Now Getz told me he wanted to dig and search for the vessels of the Beis Hamikdash. His son put out a book; when he was born, I arranged for the Rebbe to give a blessing. He has a letter from the Rebbe about his birth. Anyway, Getz told me that there was a doubt, even a compounded doubt. It was uncertain, and therefore it was possible to dig there. I said, “Rabbi Getz, we need to ask the Rebbe.” He said, “No problem.” He gave me the letter, and I recorded him—or rather, Itche Gurvitch recorded him. I have it at home, all the questions. And the Rebbe answered him that it was forbidden to dig, not only in the [unclear] tunnel—even where there was a doubt, even a compounded doubt. And [unclear]. The answer was very forceful: he should not touch it. That was the end of it. Very forceful. Then, a year or two later, I was at the Kosel.

2:04:45 Speaker 10 But he received—

2:04:46 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. I was at the Kosel when it became known that they had been digging. They started digging and reached underneath. Inside, opposite the Kodesh Hakodashim, where Getz would say Tikkun Chatzos, they reached a spot underneath nearby. Getz went there to say his prayers. Stones fell on him because it had been excavated, and there was an uproar. They immediately poured concrete over it and sealed it. They didn’t find anything. So I asked Getz, “How could you do such a thing?” He told me, “Believe me, it wasn’t me. They pinned it on me.” He said to me, “Hertz, I want to write the whole story to the Rebbe, but not send it by fax or by mail. If you have someone you can trust...” It happened that Nissan Mindel was there, so I gave Nissan Mindel the whole story. I brought him reports from Yediot and Maariv, news from Israel, from four newspapers—every article about the story—and I gave him the letter. Now Getz asked me, “Well, did you read what I wrote?” I told Getz, “Listen, all the letters you’ve given me until now were open. When they were open, I read them. This one was sealed. I didn’t dare open a letter, so I don’t know what he wrote.” He said he had written the whole truth to the Rebbe, and that they had pinned it on him. And then... what happened? What was the penalty? They had already taken away his—his authority to arrange the shifts? That he lost.

2:06:32 Speaker 10 The police shifts.

2:06:34 Speaker 2 Yes, that was one of the things. He didn’t serve any time. They cleared it up. Now I also arranged—I said at—

2:06:41 Speaker 10 What did the Rebbe answer? I don’t know.

2:06:43 Speaker 2 What? I don’t know. I don’t even know the conclusion. I don’t know, I don’t know. Now, I also arranged for someone at [unclear] to read the Rebbe’s telegram aloud.

2:06:53 Speaker 10 At [unclear], at—

2:06:55 Speaker 2 At the Kosel. Yes. [unclear], where—yes, there were two rabbis then: Getz and Rabbi Shechter. Shechter didn’t want to allow it. I shouted at him. I said, “I have Rabbi Getz’s permission, and don’t interfere,” and they read the letter—the telegram, the Rebbe’s telegram. Now Getz came and told me there was someone who wanted to... who wanted to... What did he do? He worked in the preservation of antiquities. He had applied a liquid treatment to the Twin Towers and the Statue of Liberty so water wouldn’t get in or seep through. He wanted to do the same to the Kosel.

2:07:49 Speaker 10 A kind of waterproofing.

2:07:50 Speaker 2 Yes, and he wasn’t charging anything. Getz told me he thought the man had said he wouldn’t charge, because the publicity was worth much more than the money: the Kosel! So I told them we had to ask the Rebbe. I said, “I’m going to the Rebbe. Give me all the details, and I’ll ask the Rebbe.” Oh, oh, oh—Getz told me what he had answered that man: “We want to preserve the Kosel, not its color. The Kosel has stood until now, and it will stand until Moshiach comes.” That’s what he answered him. But the man wasn’t foolish. He came to him, [unclear] in Israel, and said, “Here are two stones. If you can tell me which one I treated and which one I didn’t—”

2:08:38 Speaker 11 That you can feel the difference.

2:08:40 Speaker 2 “I’ll back down.” He brought him two stones. I said to Getz, “Maybe he didn’t put it on either one. Maybe he just told you he treated one.” So Getz said to me, “Bring me a glass of water.” He said, “Pour it.” I poured it on one, and it soaked in; on the other, it—

2:08:56 Speaker 11 Didn’t soak in.

2:08:57 Speaker 2 It formed a sort of bead. So I said to him, “I’ll write to the Rebbe,” and the man gave him about fifty pages explaining how it’s done—

2:09:06 Speaker 11 Explaining the whole technique and all the...

2:09:09 Speaker 2 Yes. I said, “I’ll write to the Rebbe. I’ll ask the Rebbe.” Yes. Oh, and he also wrote—he wrote to him. Yes, yes. So I went and gave it to Binyamin Klein to submit. Afterward I asked Binyamin, “When there’s an answer, can I take it?” And he said the Rebbe had told him, “Labkowski still has another week here, so there’s time to send it by express mail right away.” So that—

2:09:39 Speaker 11 Wait, the Rebbe said on his own that Labkowski still had another week?

2:09:41 Speaker 2 That’s what Binyamin said the Rebbe told him about—about Labkowski: “You’re staying here; you only just arrived, and—”

2:09:49 Speaker 11 And that was how it began—the Rebbe sent some kind of approval to Getz.

2:09:51 Speaker 2 Yes, approvals. I have the originals.

2:09:53 Speaker 11 What did the Rebbe answer him?

2:09:54 Speaker 2 Wait. The Rebbe answered him: first, “You’re right that the Kosel has stood until now, and it will continue to stand.” Second, the Rebbe told him that if they started working on the Kosel, it would raise a stir. People would see it as a desecration of the holy place. It would cause an uproar, so it wasn’t advisable. The Rebbe didn’t give permission. You understand?

2:10:18 Speaker 11 How long did the connection continue?

2:10:20 Speaker 2 Many years. Many years. And afterward he—he was careful that Sichas Hashavua not be read. He was a very cautious man. And he was—

2:10:30 Speaker 11 Very close.

2:10:31 Speaker 2 And there was an embossing campaign. I arranged for him to give a few answers as well. That was published not long ago.

2:10:35 Speaker 11 Sorry, Sichas Hashavua and the embossing are two different things.

2:10:38 Speaker 2 What?

2:10:38 Speaker 11 Yes.

2:10:38 Speaker 2 So he wrote, and afterward, for every birthday, it was also published on parchment. He signed birthday greetings to the Rebbe, along with all the people working there.

2:10:46 Speaker 11 Yes.

2:10:46 Speaker 2 The sofer there, Shalom—

2:10:48 Speaker 11 When did you travel to the Rebbe after you arrived?

2:10:50 Speaker 2 There was Duch and what he did about the prohibition on going up to the Temple Mount.

2:10:53 Speaker 11 Yes.

2:10:54 Speaker 2 All the stories. So Gold sent pictures to—

2:10:56 Speaker 11 [unclear] too, well.

2:10:57 Speaker 2 Yes, [unclear], but we sent pictures to the Rebbe. Everything that happened there was—

2:11:01 Speaker 11 How long did the sign with the verses remain?

2:11:03 Speaker 2 Oh, afterward they started doing work there, and I argued that the sign was too small. They needed to make something for the film on [unclear]. There were complaints, so I told Shlomo Duchman to speak with Tzach. They didn’t want to, so they took it down, and that was that. That was another blunder. They could have done it. There were a lot of blunders. I also wanted, through Getz, to put something with air-conditioning where people put on tefillin. Even to this day, that hasn’t happened.

2:11:32 Speaker 11 Yes.

2:11:34 Speaker 2 And [unclear] would let us, even though he wasn’t allowed to accept money near the Kosel, and would let the tank in. And there was Ben Eliyahu, the head of the police. I gave him three or four [unclear] each time, and he would let me have what I wanted.

2:11:50 Speaker 11 When did you first come to the Rebbe from Israel? Sorry—from Israel back to the Rebbe, the first time after the [unclear]?

2:11:56 Speaker 2 Oh, that’s a story in itself.

2:11:59 Speaker 11 Well, we’re here for stories in themselves.

2:12:01 Speaker 2 The Rebbe didn’t allow us to travel. Even when a young woman was suggested as a shidduch, the Rebbe said she should come here. The Rebbe agreed that the wedding could be held there. Shalom Duchman was the first. The Rebbe didn’t let him travel to meet her; she came—she came here. Mendel Shemtov—

2:12:18 Speaker 11 The daughter of Mendel Shemtov from Crown Heights.

2:12:19 Speaker 2 And afterward there was a second one, Gutman Klein, and Mendeliv [unclear] was Lubertov [unclear]. The Rebbe allowed the weddings to be held there. Now, I had a green card. With a green card, you have to enter every two years.

2:12:33 Speaker 11 You have to be in the United States for that.

2:12:34 Speaker 2 Yes. And Y. Keipel [unclear] arranged green cards, including one for someone from Boro Park. There were three of us. We asked whether we could travel for the sake of our green cards, and the Rebbe wanted Avraham Shemtov—

2:12:51 Speaker 11 How did you ask? Through whom?

2:12:52 Speaker 2 The secretariat.

2:12:53 Speaker 11 The secretariat.

2:12:53 Speaker 2 So Avraham Shemtov—

2:12:55 Speaker 11 A letter.

2:12:55 Speaker 2 Yes, Avraham Shemtov. There was an instruction from the Rebbe to Avraham Shemtov and Dovid Krinsky to arrange things so we wouldn’t have to travel. But they said it had been started rather late and they wouldn’t succeed. So the Rebbe said we could come, and that the secretariat, from the Rebbe’s fund, would pay for our tickets. In short, we traveled—I, Itchke Gurevitch, and Boro Farb [unclear].

2:13:19 Speaker 11 Gurevitch also had a green card?

2:13:20 Speaker 2 Yes, Y. K. [unclear]—four of us traveled. There’s a story about how I missed my flight in Paris and traveled on Friday, because if I hadn’t traveled that Friday, the two years would already have been up.

2:13:34 Speaker 11 [unclear].

2:13:35 Speaker 2 Yes, I traveled [unclear]. I traveled on Friday—that’s a story in itself—and arrived just before candle-lighting. My brother came out to pick me up. We came, we came on Rosh Chodesh Shvat. Shvat. After two years, in Shvat.

2:13:51 Speaker 11 To 770.

2:13:52 Speaker 2 Yes. Of course, there were lotteries for who could go in to daven with the Rebbe. Shluchim were allowed in; from the beginning of Elul, they let them in each time—Minchah, Maariv, Shacharis, Minchah—

2:14:05 Speaker 11 You had to go upstairs.

2:14:06 Speaker 2 Yes. By the way, one Shabbos, Frankel was there—the one who published the Rambam. He was very friendly with the Rebbe, if you know.

2:14:19 Speaker 11 Yes, he was in Crown Heights.

2:14:21 Speaker 2 Yes. So he sat there on Shabbos morning, at a table opposite the Rebbe’s table, and we waited for the Rebbe to come in. After davening he said, “I lived on President Street, and I never managed to say hello to the Rebbe first. The Rebbe always beat me to it. This Shabbos I thought, this time I’ll be first.” We talked about this and that. The Rebbe came in and—once again, he beat me. Yes. Now, Itche was a chosson, Y. K.[?] was a chosson. They went back. Oh, Schneur Gutman got married; I was at his wedding. I think I was at Sholom Dovber’s wedding too, and I was a bochur. Efraim Feigel. So I stayed a little longer. Then I got nervous. Binyamin told me—I was very close with Binyamin. The best time to talk to Binyamin was Friday afternoon. It was already Shabbos in Eretz Yisroel, no one was pestering him, it was quiet. If I needed something—it’s not relevant here—I managed to get it out of him. Anyway, he told me, “You’ve been here a long time.” I said, “I’ll ask the Rebbe. I want to stay a little longer.” I asked the Rebbe if I could stay a little longer. The Rebbe didn’t answer. I wrote again; the Rebbe didn’t answer. So Rabbi Groner told me, “Ask a third time. If the Rebbe doesn’t answer, you go back.” The third time I added a few words. I added that I wanted to stay until around 4 Nissan, or until Pesach. I gave a time frame. It was a few [unclear]. In short, I stayed. I was there for Shvat, Adar I, Adar II, Nissan—until Rosh Chodesh Iyar. By then I was embarrassed, even though the Rebbe would have wished me a good trip. I just wrote and ran off as fast as I could. Why? Because Binyamin had told me a story. I knew the story of Shmulik Gurvitz, who had stayed with the Rebbe for three years and had had enough. So—

2:16:48 Speaker 2 He came to the Rebbe’s tish in his third year.

2:16:53 Speaker 3 In Lyon[?].

2:16:54 Speaker 2 Yes, he already wanted to stay in Seattle. Before Yud Kislev, Binyamin Klein told him, “If you stay here through Yud Kislev, you’ve lost your shlichus.” So I remember he arrived on the eve of Yud Kislev, coming from Seattle. That’s why I was a little nervous. But the Rebbe gave me that kind of answer.

2:17:14 Speaker 3 Well.

2:17:14 Speaker 2 I was there for Shvat, Adar I, Adar II, and Nissan—four months in the middle of my shlichus.

2:17:19 Speaker 3 There were lots of farbrengens during the week too. There was Purim Katan.

2:17:22 Speaker 2 Everything was happening. It was really something. Of course, I didn’t go out on any shidduch dates there. They suggested a shidduch to me then, and I wanted some sort of story, and I went back. I became a chosson in Eretz Yisroel so they’d stop driving me crazy. That’s it.

2:17:42 Speaker 3 Oh, so you arrived in Eretz Yisroel already a chosson.

2:17:44 Speaker 2 Well, it was like this. On the way, I arranged for my wife-to-be to come to Marseille, and my mother came to Marseille, and we met there. Afterward I came here, and we met quietly here. No, I didn’t come—

2:18:00 Speaker 3 To Jerusalem.

2:18:01 Speaker 2 To Jerusalem, and I became a chosson. I came.

2:18:05 Speaker 3 And did you fly back to the Rebbe, or wasn’t that the custom then?

2:18:08 Speaker 2 No, no. I wanted to travel to the Rebbe’s tish. She traveled.

2:18:15 Speaker 3 The Yud Shvat tish.

2:18:16 Speaker 2 I wanted to travel to the Rebbe. I asked the— I asked the Rebbe through my brother, and I told my brother Zalman, “See what the Rebbe answered you—answered me. Go into the secretariat and see what the Rebbe answered on the note.” But he didn’t go in, and he told me that Binyamin Klein had told him the Rebbe said no. So I didn’t travel. When I was in yechidus, the Rebbe said, “Isn’t the chosson here?” So he told the Rebbe, “The chosson asked, and the Rebbe answered him.” The Rebbe said, “I didn’t answer. I didn’t tell him no. But perhaps he doesn’t remember. He asked and I didn’t answer, so he understood that he should stay.” That was the story. And then my wife had a longer yechidus than anyone else, on Yud Shvat.

2:19:03 Speaker 3 On the night of Yud Shvat? Why, what happened?

2:19:04 Speaker 2 She was there ten minutes. That’s—that’s a story in itself, how she was close to the Rebbetzin. My wife was—

2:19:10 Speaker 3 No, no, I don’t know any of this. Tell us.

2:19:12 Speaker 2 Yes, that—that’s not for now.

2:19:14 Speaker 3 Tell us. We can’t interview her. Tell us.

2:19:16 Speaker 2 Interview her. She was very close there.

2:19:19 Speaker 3 So, and...?

2:19:19 Speaker 2 The Rebbetzin gave her... The Rebbetzin told her, “Let me know, and I’ll come to receive you on that date, [unclear].” It’s a story.

2:19:30 Speaker 3 And that night, was she with her parents?

2:19:33 Speaker 2 Her father went in before her. She was supposed to go in next. When her father came out of yechidus, he told her, “Come, let’s go home.” So someone started shouting, “What do you mean? She’s supposed to go in!” He said the Rebbe had told him that he didn’t have enough time that day: “Tomorrow I’ll have more time for you”—to give her more time, so she should come tomorrow.

2:19:55 Speaker 3 More time to devote to her.

2:19:57 Speaker 2 Yes.

2:19:58 Speaker 3 And they came back the next day, and...?

2:19:59 Speaker 2 She was there for a few—twenty minutes. I don’t know.

2:20:02 Speaker 3 Twenty minutes.

2:20:04 Speaker 2 Compared with Shleimke, who went in and came right out, and Solovach[?]—hers was the longest yechidus. That’s a story in itself.

2:20:12 Speaker 3 I see. Shleimke and Solovach[?] went in and what?

2:20:14 Speaker 2 In and out.

2:20:15 Speaker 3 Yes, straight in and straight out.

2:20:18 Speaker 2 Yes.

2:20:18 Speaker 3 She had that yechidus—

2:20:19 Speaker 2 But what did the Rebbe say? Silence. “He asked, and I didn’t answer.”

2:20:24 Speaker 3 Silence. He asked and didn’t—

2:20:25 Speaker 2 He said very little, and I don’t remember.

2:20:29 Speaker 3 And you got married on...?

2:20:31 Speaker 2 30 Teves.

2:20:32 Speaker 3 In the winter, 30 Teves.

2:20:34 Speaker 2 Yes, in Tel Aviv. Well, there was a hall—what was it called?

2:20:37 Speaker 3 Gil, uh, Simcha Hall or something.

2:20:40 Speaker 2 Or Mea, uh, Mea Par[?].

2:20:42 Speaker 3 Mea Par[?].

2:20:44 Speaker 2 Your father was surely there.

2:20:45 Speaker 3 Yes. Wait, when did you and your wife next travel to the Rebbe together?

2:20:50 Speaker 2 Afterward, I started traveling during Nissan, for Pesach. I traveled with my wife and the children. That’s a story in itself—they took my green card.

2:21:02 Speaker 3 You traveled with the children, and you would go for Pesach.

2:21:05 Speaker 2 So once, after two years, I went in—

2:21:08 Speaker 3 To yechidus.

2:21:09 Speaker 2 No, to the airport.

2:21:11 Speaker 3 Yes.

2:21:12 Speaker 2 They confiscated my green card.

2:21:13 Speaker 3 Well.

2:21:14 Speaker 2 They took me into a red room. I remember my wife needed to nurse Yitzchak Tzvi. You know the problem I have.

2:21:21 Speaker 3 Yes, of course.

2:21:23 Speaker 2 They scheduled me a court hearing on Yom Tov. I said, “Holiday.” So they scheduled it for Erev Pesach. Who was going to come with me on Erev Pesach? So she told me, “Arrange it by phone.” I did that. I had the hearing after Pesach. Now, my brother Yisroel, may he be well, knows the laws. So I went to all the lawyers. They said, “There’s nothing to be done.” Yisroel asked J. J. Hecht—he worked on getting green cards for the Iranians, and he had someone named Kamugoi[?]. He had a very nice office on Fifth Avenue. You could see the... And he made him the guest of honor at the dinner. He helped a great deal. So he arranged a meeting for me with this lawyer, Makamo. Makamo told me, “You’ll have to stay for six months and pay eight thousand dollars, and even then there’s no guarantee you’ll succeed.”

2:22:09 Speaker 3 Yes.

2:22:10 Speaker 2 To get them green cards, and he knew someone named McCamoy[?]. He had a very nice office on Fifth Avenue. You can see how—he made him the guest of honor at the dinner. He helped a great deal. So he arranged a meeting for me with this lawyer, McCamoy. McCamoy told me, “You’ll have to stay for six months and pay eight thousand dollars, and even then there’s no guarantee you’ll be approved.”

2:22:36 Speaker 3 Oh.

2:22:38 Speaker 2 So I went back. My brother told J. J., and J. J. called him. He told him, “Listen, his wife is Israeli, he has no bank account, he has no home here—he’ll grow old here. Start the process over. Drop it. That’s it. There’s nothing to be done.” But I didn’t want to drop it. I went to Gurvitz, and he came with me. “No, first you do it yourself.” I said, “Okay, if you don’t want to, I’ll go alone.” So we went. We had to go to court, and the lawyers at the government’s Legal Aid also told me there was nothing to be done. So we went without a lawyer, without a lawyer. Yisroel, may he be well, said, “Let’s bring someone else, because if one of us says something foolish...” So we brought Yossi Raichik from Beis Chacham Tami. Yossi Raichik came with my brother Yisroel and me. We went to Immigration, Immigration. Yisroel told me, “Listen, sometimes a Jewish judge is a blessing, and sometimes it’s the opposite.” Anyway, we came to court in the morning. A Jewish judge, Cohen, Cohen. We went in. He asked, “Who is this about?” “Me.” “Who are these two?” “Translators.” “Do you want a translator in Hebrew or French? I see you’re also French. You were born in France.” I said, “French.” I didn’t want Hebrew. An older woman came in to translate. Then he said, “Where’s the lawyer? Here’s a lawyer.” So he asked the woman who had my file, “Didn’t you tell them there’s Legal Aid? There’s—”

2:24:23 Speaker 3 State-appointed judges.

2:24:25 Speaker 2 Yes. So she says, “I told them.” “So what?” he says. “There’s no lawyer?” He had the morning paper in his hand, and he slapped it down. He said, “I’m going into the office. Decide: lawyer or no lawyer.” He went in, and the woman said to me, “Je suis juive. I’m Jewish.” I said something to her in French, jokingly. “You came to court without a lawyer? You’ll lose your life,” she told me. [unclear]. I said, “Okay, a lawyer. A lawyer.” Yes, okay. He came out, acknowledged there had been a mistake, and set my court date for the following week. Now I needed a lawyer. I was sitting at a farbrengen—actually, he’d asked me to talk to him a little—and I sat next to Reb Yisroel Shemtov. I told him about it. Reb Yisroel is organized: he wrote down Cohen’s name and the phone number of the woman handling the case.

2:25:36 Speaker 3 The interpreter.

2:25:36 Speaker 2 I told him everything, and he said, “Listen, come to me on Monday. We’ll do something.” Fine. On Monday I came. He called the woman handling the case. She said, “Tell Rabbi Shemtov I want to speak with you.” “About what?” “About Labkowski.” “I don’t want to speak with you.”

2:25:56 Speaker 3 What?

2:25:57 Speaker 2 I said, “There’s a judge.” He called the judge and said, “Tell him Rabbi Shemtov wants to speak with you.” He said, “Okay, you can come.” So I went with him. I stayed in the car and watched it so he wouldn’t get a ticket.

2:26:11 Speaker 3 Yes.

2:26:11 Speaker 2 You know how it is. He went in and was there for about half an hour, I don’t know exactly how long. He said, “Labkowski, things are going well. Listen, I spoke with him about being a Kohen and what duchening is. That’s how I explained to him what the power of persuasion is. Afterward I won him over. I said I’d even have him written into a Sefer Torah.” [unclear]. Then he said to him, “I have a case involving a Lubavitch couple.” How did he know we were Lubavitch? Because on the [unclear] they gave me, I had a picture of the Rebbe—I still have the picture. Instead of stamping the document, they put a red stamp on the Rebbe’s picture. So he saw the Rebbe’s picture there. He said, “I have a couple.” So Reb Yisroel told him, “Yes, maybe you can help them.” But he said, “They came to court without a lawyer.” Reb Yisroel said, “A lawyer would take the shirt off his back. He doesn’t have money for a lawyer; it costs a fortune.” So he said, “There’s a woman at Legal Aid, Holstein. She can help. Go to her; she can help.” So we went to her, and we didn’t tell her that the judge had sent us. She brought in a Black man with a head like this. I spoke, and she said to me, “It’s not like this.” There was a whole back-and-forth. She asked me for letters. To Yehuda Krinsky’s credit, my wife and I have remained friendly with him to this day. He would type up whatever letters I asked for. Even after [unclear], when he took the car, he would come back especially for me. He would deliver things too. And not only did I get the—the hearing was on Friday. He came especially in the morning. The judge arrived with [unclear], and they no longer needed an interpreter. He was holding

2:28:06 Speaker 2 the green card, and she arranged for me to receive citizenship even though they had refused me because I hadn’t been in the country for the required three years, five years. And my wife—

2:28:16 Speaker 3 In America.

2:28:16 Speaker 2 And my wife received citizenship before the green card. The Rebbe wrote to me, “Thank you for the good news.” The Rebbetzin also said to us, “Well, you deserve it. Why are you complaining?”

2:28:26 Speaker 3 About the—about the citizenship.

2:28:28 Speaker 2 Because my wife stayed until Shavuos, and by Shavuos she had already received citizenship. I left and asked to come in Tishrei, and I came in Tishrei. Even after that, you have to stay for half a year. [unclear] stayed half a year. I arranged it within a week, also through Yudel. Mr. Lieberman there, a Jewish man, said, “This is a case that happens once in a thousand years.” I received citizenship. Yes.

2:28:55 Speaker 3 Later on, did you receive any more instructions from the Rebbe?

2:28:58 Speaker 2 What?

2:28:59 Speaker 3 Later on, did you receive any more instructions from the Rebbe, or was that already...

2:29:02 Speaker 2 No, no. One little episode: the Rebbe told my wife in yechidus, “Kfar Chabad is not for you. You don’t need to strain yourselves to go to Migdal HaEmek. Jerusalem.” That’s why I came to Jerusalem. Then, quite a few years later, without my having asked, the Rebbe wrote to me, “It’s worthwhile trying Kfar Chabad.”

2:29:27 Speaker 3 “It’s worthwhile trying Kfar Chabad.”

2:29:29 Speaker 2 I was stunned.

2:29:30 Speaker 3 In light of the earlier answer.

2:29:31 Speaker 2 Yes.

2:29:32 Speaker 3 Well.

2:29:33 Speaker 2 I was stunned. Later I came to Kfar Chabad Beis, and I had a le-le-leak. I don’t know what it was. I couldn’t sleep with air conditioners, and I put in—what do you call it—[unclear]. I didn’t know what to do, and my mashpia wrote to the Rebbe. The Rebbe answered, “The community of Kfar Chabad has first priority.” The Rebbe answered me too: “The community of Kfar Chabad has first priority.” He had written that the climate wasn’t good for me. I went to the Mor Institute and had tests from head to toe. They told me everything was fine, but there was a clever doctor there who said, “Maybe it’s an allergy. Walk around among the orchards.” After a year, it went away. Yes.

2:30:18 Speaker 3 That was one of your first experiences in Kfar Chabad, and you’ve been here ever since.

2:30:20 Speaker 2 Yes.

2:30:21 Speaker 3 Every day in Kfar Chabad—may the days of the kingdom be prolonged, and may we see the Rebbe again immediately. Amen. Thank you so much.

2:30:27 Speaker 2 Amen.

2:30:29 Speaker 3 Thank you very much, Rabbi Labkowski. As we said at the beginning, there’s far too little time to hear all the stories, and with Hashem’s help we’ll hear more in other episodes. What’s certain is that we need to learn how every Jew, and anyone with influence, can influence other people who themselves have a great deal of influence. From this we can learn to strengthen our hiskashrus to the Rebbe and work to bring the Rebbe’s message to every Jew, everywhere. And very soon we’ll see the Rebbe again. Thank you so much. Good news.