Livenyomin Omar | Episode 11: Rabbi Sholom Duchman

Hello and welcome to a new podcast episode. Our special guest is Rabbi Sholom Duchman, chairman of Colel Chabad in the Holy Land, who is currently visiting Israel. Sholom aleichem, Rabbi Duchman.

Guest: Sholom.

Interviewer: You’re in Israel now, first and foremost, because you came for a simchah.

Guest: That’s right, boruch Hashem. I came to take part in the simchah of a good friend of mine, Rabbi Lior Shrosberg. He’s a partner in many, many Colel Chabad projects and in Chabad institutions in New York. Boruch Hashem, he’s an extraordinary Jew, with an extraordinary family, and the simchah really was a simchah.

Interviewer: The wedding celebration.

Guest: Yes, the wedding celebration was truly exceptional. A kiddush Hashem. It was something else.

Interviewer: Really, what made it so special?

Guest: There was a special joy about it, and you saw people from every circle and every walk of life—both from other circles and within Chabad. I don’t like to say, chas v’shalom, that we have different circles, but people do have different approaches and different ways of doing things. And boruch Hashem, everyone came together as one. And the way he welcomed everyone—[unclear], ministers, rabbis, rebbes, ordinary people. To me, there are no ordinary people, but there were people who not long ago were practically on the street, whom he brought in and drew close. The attention he gives each person—it was something to see. It was truly a kiddush Hashem, a sanctification of Hashem’s name, to see that aspect of him revealed.

Interviewer: One could say that it’s not just with him. In general, you have a special knack: you don’t just bring in donors for Colel Chabad’s various projects and initiatives; when you speak with them, you become real friends. What’s the secret?

Guest: I don’t know whether I’m friends with people. Listen, first of all, with a Jew like Eli, for example, it’s very, very easy to be friends. It isn’t a teacher-student relationship. In many respects—his outlook on so many things, where he stands in Chassidus—it’s simply amazing. So that makes it very easy. But for my part, one of the things I make a real effort to do is farbreng with them wherever I can. I also try to learn with my donors—with many of them. Every Friday afternoon I take a verse and make time to say a few words about the parsha. And I’m also very careful to come to their simchahs. That comes first. When other things are going on, I’m there. I want to be there, and I make the effort to be there.

Interviewer: Sometimes there’s a gap when a supporter begins sponsoring a particular project or initiative. Then, presumably, there’s always the challenge that the person providing the money also wants a say. He wants to set the criteria, perhaps get involved in the criteria or in how the project is run. I imagine that’s a challenge you encounter.

Guest: Some are like that, and some aren’t.

Interviewer: Yes. And how do you deal with it?

Guest: If what they’re asking is reasonable, we do it. Listen, as you say, they’re the ones providing the money. Nobody owes us anything. We owe them: either we undertake to do what they ask, or we do what we tell them we’ll do. And we work to carry out the task, to fulfill what was agreed.

Interviewer: Right. We’ll talk about all that at greater length. I want to start a little earlier. You’re not really a visitor to Israel—you were among the first group of shluchim who came here, arriving as a young man. What year was that?

Guest: That’s right, it was in the year...

Interviewer: Exactly 50 years ago, 5736.

Guest: Well, on Shabbos Parshas Bamidbar, yes.

Interviewer: You arrived in Jerusalem then?

Guest: I arrived in Jerusalem, yes.

Interviewer: With a group of...

Guest: There were 11 young men in the group.

Interviewer: You and 10 others.

Guest: Some of them weren’t... Not all of them were unmarried; some were...

Interviewer: They were all unmarried?

Guest: The Jerusalem group were all unmarried. The group that went to Tzfas were married men.

Interviewer: And where did you settle—in Toras Emes?

Guest: We settled in Toras Emes, and we studied in Toras Emes, yes. We also studied at the Tzemach Tzedek in the Old City, and we slept and ate at Toras Emes.

Interviewer: What was your defined role?

Guest: Our defined role—the Rebbe said—was to live in Israel. Simply to be in Israel, to live there, and of course, as chassidim, to do what the Rebbe wanted. There was no specific role, no particular assignment.

Interviewer: Where did you work—in shuls? How did it work? Did you repeat the Rebbe’s sichos in shuls, things like that?

Guest: We repeated sichos, held farbrengens, did mivtzoim, went out...

Interviewer: Did you meet with public figures?

Guest: We did, yes. At the time, at the Yud Shvat farbrengen, the Rebbe spoke about how much he wanted to establish a meaningful presence in Eretz Yisroel. He wanted to send a core group to Tzfas and a core group to Jerusalem, to live there, so there would be a lasting presence of residents there. Nothing was specifically defined at the time.

Interviewer: No defined role.

Guest: A defined role—that came later. Suddenly, many, many requests reached the Rebbe. I remember them: everyone wanted to be a shliach too. I don’t know whether it was the following Shabbos or two weeks later, but the Rebbe set out the criteria: unmarried young men who weren’t planning to marry within the next year; and married men who were past their first year of marriage—they could...

Interviewer: Apply.

Guest: Volunteer.

Interviewer: Volunteer.

Guest: So boruch Hashem, somehow I was accepted. About two weeks later, Rabbi Bicklin, the Rebbe’s secretary, met me and congratulated me on having been chosen. I had received the answer; I had been given the mission of a lifetime. Those were the two things he told me.

Interviewer: Did you know then that the shlichus was limited—to a year?

Interviewer: And what happened after a year or so?

Guest: After a year, we... we...

Interviewer: Wait, you said Yud Shvat?

Guest: Yud Shvat, yes. About a year and a half after that, I was engaged.

Interviewer: Before we get to that, let’s pause for a moment. Earlier, on Pesach, your father went to receive matzah from the Rebbe for you, and the Rebbe said something like, “I sent him. He’s my shliach. I sent it to him”?

Guest: Yes. The Rebbe said to him—listen, I wasn’t there, so this is as I heard it and as I remember it today—the Rebbe said he had been “sent”: “He’s my shliach; I sent him myself. I don’t need an intermediary.”

Interviewer: Was that on Erev Pesach?

Guest: Pesach...

Interviewer: Toward the end of 5737?

Guest: On Erev Pesach, toward the end of 5737—that’s the story. Yes, Pesach 5737, the following year. Before Pesach there had been, boruch Hashem, the festival—the Yom Tov, the festival of festivals. It’s always the festival of festivals. But in Israel it hadn’t been like that. There was a big farbrengen in Kfar Chabad. In those years we didn’t travel there, but we came, boruch Hashem, and held the big farbrengen in Kfar Chabad.

In Kfar Chabad, it was the first time it had been like that, as in [?]. People came, government officials came [?]; they were very involved. There was a big farbrengen in Kfar Chabad, and I had the privilege of being one of the organizers of that impressive event.

So when my father went by the Rebbe that Erev Pesach—my father already knew from three years earlier not to ask for matzah only for himself—the Rebbe called to him and asked, “Reb [?], why don’t you ask?”

Guest: “Why don’t you ask, Reb [?]?” he asked him. And then he received some for all of Eretz Yisroel as well, you see; he was responsible for all of Eretz Yisroel.

Then my father... The Rebbe asked him, it seems to me, why he wasn’t there—whether he had run away from there. My father answered that he had wanted to run away from there. So the Rebbe told him he shouldn’t have wanted to run away; he needed to be there. That was the story. And then, a year later, he asked to study, and...

Interviewer: Again, all this is from your memory?

Guest: It’s not entirely clear. It’s from my memory—as I remember today what happened then. I wasn’t there.

Interviewer: Yes.

Guest: Yes, but these things are very precious.

Interviewer: The substance of what was said—that’s what matters.

Guest: Exactly. I can’t say the actual words are accurate word for word.

Interviewer: About a year and a half later, then, you became engaged?

Guest: I was getting married... I was a chassan, and I asked the Rebbe for permission to come to America to get married. The Rebbe gave permission.

It’s very interesting—I had written to the Rebbe asking when I should get married.

The Rebbe answered me—I don’t remember the exact wording, but it was something like “around this time,” and I said that would work.

Then, after that, when I had a few requests, the Rebbe said... There are parts of this that I... It’s interesting.

Interviewer: Okay, so there would be a place, something, in my Chabad—that, that...

Guest: Then I submitted several requests, actually. It’s very interesting. I submitted several requests, and the Rebbe chose the date furthest away. At the time I thought... I don’t remember—one was on Yud Shvat [?], and another was on [unclear], and the Rebbe chose the one furthest away.

Now, one of the options I chose was a hall in New York. As it happened, it would have been impossible to hold the wedding there. It belonged to Mr. Mostein [?]—Mr. Mostein, who had his catering business in Youngstown [?]. Don’t you remember Youngstown? You do—it was on [unclear].

Interviewer: Yes, yes.

Guest: It doesn’t exist today. It’s apartments now.

Interviewer: It’s an apartment building now, yes.

Guest: Yes, but back then—you remember, right?

Interviewer: On [unclear], yes, about a block and a half [?] from the Jewish Center [?].

Guest: The Jewish Center [?] was there then; today it’s [unclear], yes. And it was impossible to get there—the snow was... I’m just...

Interviewer: It saved you.

Guest: I’m not saying... I’m not interpreting it that way.

Interviewer: And when did Chabad actually enter the picture in your life?

Guest: Okay, so how Chabad entered the picture in my life is very interesting. As I told you, the Rebbe chose [unclear]—there must have been a reason for it. So I arrived for Yud Shvat. I had asked permission to come for Yud Shvat and received it. I think it was Yud Shvat; I don’t remember the requests exactly. But there was a yechidus.

Yechidus with the Rebbe at the end of 5737 was a little different from an ordinary yechidus. The Rebbe would sit in the room, and there was a small, narrow table, almost like a bench—a table across the room. We went in, and the Rebbe was there. It was a little like... [unclear] something like that. On the one hand, it was a yechidus: you spoke to the Rebbe personally, with no one else accompanying you. But there were other people there, so it wasn’t quite a yechidus in that sense.

So all of us—me, my then-fiancée, my brother, and my father and mother—came in together. We went in to the Rebbe. The Rebbe said to me, “What are you doing here?”

The Rebbe asked, “What are you doing here?” And immediately the Rebbe said [unclear].

Interviewer: We’d discussed your going in separately—separately, yes. You had to speak to the secretary about when. Generally, when the Rebbe was going to say something unexpected to someone, did the Rebbe let them know beforehand? Yes?

Guest: I have a little story—Yossi Katznik [?]. Once the Rebbe passed by and gave everyone one package, and the Rebbe said—and I should mention—that [I received] Pesach matzos. [Laughter] You were supposed to receive two packages, right?

Guest: Again, I can’t tell you the name, but I’ll tell you about it. So I imagine it was Pesach. In any case, that’s what the Rebbe said; I’m telling you exactly what I remember.

Interviewer: And did you go to the secretary?

Guest: Afterward, Rabbi Chodakov called me—Ben Boruch Posner [?] and me together. We were among the shluchim. There was a group of shluchim as well.

Interviewer: Among the shluchim of... And he said that the Rebbe was your age?

Guest: Isn’t he older than you?

Guest: A little, a little older—a year, not much. We’re almost the same age. But he was one of our shluchim, and Rabbi Chodakov told us that the Rebbe wanted to suggest that we... But the matter that [came up] didn’t go forward, didn’t go forward. The Rebbe didn’t—and it wasn’t even clear what the shlichus was. It was in Jerusalem. It wasn’t with... We spoke about a baal teshuvah, personally, and spoke personally. I don’t remember much of what we discussed. There was nothing out of the ordinary; that’s all I can [remember].

Interviewer: But it was clear that this was a shlichus in Eretz Yisroel?

Guest: It was clear that there was a shlichus in Eretz Yisroel, yes, yes. Then Rabbi Chodakov said to me, “Well, are you willing?” I said, “Yes, of course I’m willing.” He said, “You have a fiancée? You need to bring your fiancée.” I said, “I’m sure she agrees.” He said, “You have to ask her, and you can’t give me an answer until 24 hours have passed.” [Laughter] Wait 24 hours. After that, things got very, very interesting. I don’t remember exactly when it was—I always say, if you want to know when it was, Chaim Schur [?] will tell you. He already...

Interviewer: He knows all the dates, and if you need to know exactly when and how—when you ask when it happened, you ask Chaim Schur?

Guest: Right, Chaim Schur.

Guest: Chaim Schur will tell you exactly when it was. In any case, I think it was Wednesday, the Wednesday before the wedding. Rabbi Chodakov told us—or told me, perhaps together with Ben Boruch; I don’t remember that detail either—that we would go in for yechidus with the Rebbe. Yechidus.

Guest: The yechidus was [unclear]; it was on Friday at one in the morning. We would wait nearby and the Rebbe would speak with us. That’s how it happened. So we stood there, Ben Boruch Posner and I. Rabbi Chodakov was in the Rebbe’s room. Then Rabbi Chodakov came out, and then the Rebbe came out. The Rebbe had both hands like this, on his lapels. The Rebbe spoke for about five minutes, seven minutes.

Interviewer: In the doorway?

Interviewer: In the doorway of the Rebbe’s room, yes?

Guest: He spoke to the two of us there, and the Rebbe spoke. But through all of this—even what Rabbi Chodakov had said—nothing was clear. In that yechidus, though, the Rebbe spoke about Chabad as a whole, along those lines. The Rebbe said there were chassidim in Jerusalem and that we should work together with them. It turned out that... The Rebbe spoke about wanting to open a new Chabad center in the Old City of Jerusalem. The Rebbe also stressed very strongly that everything must be done in peaceful ways—peaceful ways—and that, G-d forbid, no dispute should result. [Unclear] the Rebbe—so that was Jerusalem. In any case, that much you knew.

Interviewer: So after the wedding, you got up and went to Jerusalem?

Guest: Yes, it wasn’t—[Coughs]—the yechidus was before the wedding, but afterward...

Guest: After that, very interestingly, the Rebbe asked [unclear], and...

Interviewer: You understood—the rabbi said, “[unclear]”—[unclear]—“[unclear].”

Interviewer: It seems that not everything...?

Guest: What can you do? I have to tell you—just two days before the wedding, with all of this, the excitement was such that you can’t describe it, you can’t tell it. So the Rebbe said [unclear] to speak with—I think—Rabbi Chodakov. But I have something noteworthy written down; it says Ben Boruch. So [unclear]. And that was the yechidus. That’s really what... Looking back at my memory today, it’s a shame [unclear].

Interviewer: And then you arrived where the people running things were based in Jerusalem. Where were they based?

Guest: On [unclear] Street in Jerusalem.

Interviewer: Yes?

Interviewer: So suddenly two young men who had only just gotten married turned up. How did they receive you? It’s not...

Guest: They received us very, very well, very graciously. You know, there was also Reb Brizel—two of them.

Interviewer: Yes, and the rabbi—I never met the rabbi, but I... He had already passed away, so...

Interviewer: He passed away shortly afterward, I think, right? [Laughter]

Guest: He passed away shortly afterward, yes. But I don’t remember... Maybe I did meet him. In any case, there was no real connection. We began to develop things. On the contrary, they weren’t people who just talked; they weren’t in a position to do any of that. Rabbi Schneersohn’s name [unclear], and we started from there.

Guest: At a certain point we came to the conclusion that it would be better for you to be in New York to raise the funds there. How exactly did that work?

Guest: It wasn’t a particular arrangement—it came from the Rebbe. The suggestion was that I said, “I’ll write to the Rebbe.”

Interviewer: He suggested that you write to the Rebbe about it?

Guest: He suggested that I write... Yes.

Interviewer: That he suggested...

Guest: This was toward the end of a period of financial difficulty. I came to the Rebbe for Pesach. Before that, I’d traveled to several places in Europe, and there was a bit of [background]. After Pesach I had a yechidus. It was in Nissan 5740 [cough] [laughter]—before the flight. It was already 5740, yes... After that, yes.

Guest: And the Rebbe spoke with great pain about Colel Chabad—that not enough was being done, that people weren’t listening. There are also organizations here like “Rachamim” [unclear]; they hold dinners [unclear], they hold banquets [unclear], they do all sorts of things. It’s a shame that everyone [unclear]...

Guest: The Rebbe spoke about Colel Chabad’s debts. The Rebbe spoke about how nothing was being done—otherwise there wouldn’t be debts, there wouldn’t be so many debts. In New York, New York—this was before those debts; that came soon afterward. In New York there was a debt of almost two million dollars. It was a shame: letters were being sent out, and in most cases they didn’t even know whether the person was still alive or not. And the Rebbe said, “I sent you, and I thought there would be a drastic change, but I’m very, very disappointed.” The Rebbe spoke with great pain. And the Rebbe said: If we put things in order, that’s good; and if not, then I also don’t... G-d forbid. It will be all right, first of all.

Guest: Wow, who knows, G-d forbid, what would have to be done. The Rebbe said: If you take action, we’ll help as much as we can. There could be a farbrengen; we could invest in a farbrengen, in what that could accomplish. Afterward, at the end, the Rebbe said [unclear]... It was a private yechidus that the Rebbe came to [unclear].

Guest: In other words, tremendous strength. The Rebbe tells you that, and the Rebbe even expresses his desire to help. The Rebbe says, “I can help you here with a farbrengen.” And the Rebbe says you need to bring in all the rabbis who had headed it—giving you to understand that you’ll have their full backing. Just get started, as they say.

Interviewer: Now, in that yechidus, did you write to the Rebbe that you—as Rabbi Chaskov [unclear] had suggested—that you...

Guest: Not yet. At the time I was planning to go to Eretz Yisroel. That was a continuation of my shlichus there; I’d already started working there. I had some connections in the government that I’d made. I had... I was...

Interviewer: You lived in Jerusalem?

Guest: I lived in Jerusalem, yes, in... Jerusalem, in ’53. I was, as they say, riding high—everything was working out, everything was in place.

Guest: But we understood that for this to work—for it to succeed—we needed... I wanted... For us to succeed, we needed a person, and we needed [cough] an office. Even today you need an office on the ground.

Interviewer: Today the office can be anywhere in the world.

Guest: Right. But what I’m talking about was 50 years ago. You had to have a physical presence, to do things in person. It wasn’t expensive, but it did involve keeping someone there. Okay, so I started looking for someone. I wrote about it to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe also said it was very, very important not to give someone the position until we were sure he was suitable and could do the job—and only after a trial period. That’s exactly what I did. I looked; someone had been suggested to me, and I sat down with several important people. We had a meeting on Thursday evening, and everyone thought he was a young man who could be suitable. Once we’d decided on him, I wrote his name to the Rebbe.

Guest: He would run the office from America, as it were. Yes, yes, hire someone to run the office; I’d make sure to pay him an annual salary, no need to worry. I was also... I was a manager [unclear]; it wasn’t as though I was doing it alone.

Guest: So the Rebbe answered me that we had to take each person into account as he is, in his own way [unclear], and take the simplest approach: be mindful of our relationship with people who aren’t familiar with Chabad language, without insisting on a particular wording. We shouldn’t go on like that, but should make sure to receive a blessing for success from each and every one of them—both those in the Holy Land and those close to the leading rabbis. The Rebbe, in his name, would certainly see to it for me, explaining the reasoning to each and every one of them.

Guest: Wow, what a lesson. And the Rebbe [unclear]—so, yes. [laughter]

Interviewer: So you understood, simply...

Guest: We understood that this was the way—that everyone thinks it all happens face-to-face. A few days later I’d already sent word about these things to Leiner [unclear]. Once I said firmly that I wanted to stay there myself. He said to me, “No, what are you talking about? You want to live in Eretz Yisroel?” But afterward he came back and told me he thought—he wanted me to put it to the Rebbe that I...

Interviewer: That you would be the liaison?

Guest: That I would be the liaison. So I wrote it as a proposal—that in a trial arrangement like this, I’m almost certain that’s what he said. Then the Rebbe said: And if... the Rebbe said they should come together in March, and in any event, he should stay in the end. By then, the whole matter of the New York office had already begun.

Interviewer: And from there it developed—where did it lead? When you spoke just now about the pushka, it really seems to me that you were the first to take that idea and turn it into an institution in its own right. That is, this tzedakah box, placed in every Jewish business or any place connected with Jews, became an institution. It’s a symbol, perhaps, of something that actually brings in money—and not an insignificant amount.

Guest: It really brings in money. And what’s very interesting is that I was always looking for a way for it not to be a “pushka” in the small sense of the word—not just an ordinary pushka, you know, but something more distinguished. And here it became...

Guest: It turned out that this very thing—the work my children do now, all their marketing, all the “clicks”—is the pushka. It’s also a pushka, but a virtual one. Today we have thousands of people using it—literally thousands. And besides that...

Interviewer: I imagine that if it’s virtual, the amounts are also more substantial than some small coin, right?

Guest: Yes. But it was also very interesting. The connection from home to home grew. Our pushkas in New York—there was a time when we had around 25,000 pushkas [unclear], yes.

Guest: And then Mendy—this Mendy was a young man, Mendy.

Guest: Mendy was a young man then, yes, in the environment he grew up in.

Guest: And...

Interviewer: What was his role?

Guest: To distribute them—to distribute the tzedakah boxes.

Guest: To distribute the boxes and raise money through them. There were 20,000, 25,000 boxes, of all different kinds, in all sorts of places. We had seven or eight people collecting the boxes. I remember writing to the Rebbe then about this tremendous undertaking, and the Rebbe said: Besides the income, there’s also publicity. That’s really the point. It’s interesting—I’m telling you, in yechidus I [unclear] every time we gave out a pushka.

Interviewer: Yes, it really is. Over the years you’ve gained real expertise—we touched on it a little—in recruiting people of means and turning them into donors. People say you’re one of the greatest fundraisers in the Jewish world. Is there a secret to your success? Is there something you know?

Guest: I told you—I don’t know the secret to success. It’s in the merit of the Rebbe; you’re carrying on the Rebbe’s work, of course. As for myself, I’d say there were people who told you “no,” and you had to break through, you had to...

Interviewer: People who told you, “No, I can’t right now”?

Guest: “Not now—come back another time, on another occasion.” And you still have to persuade them, to tell them, “Come be a partner, come be a partner.”

Guest: I say, when someone tells me “maybe,” I take it that he really means “maybe”—so I’m sure it’s a “yes.” And if he tells me “yes,” I ask myself, “Why did I ask for so little?” Right?

Interviewer: That’s interesting.

Guest: People, boruch Hashem, there are... Listen, this is simply Colel Chabad’s success. It isn’t the success of individuals; it’s from Heaven, no question. And here we are, in this place. I know how many challenges there are here. We got approval from the municipality to do renovations and make changes involving five or six floors—those aren’t things you get easily. Thanks to that, they’re building a ten-story building around here, in Mesdes [unclear], Jerusalem.

Interviewer: What will its purpose be?

Guest: The plan is for it to have a kitchen, a shul, a workshop for people with physical disabilities, apartments for lone soldiers, and all sorts of other activities—our activities, the things we do. More of them there, too. And of course, “Beis Yitzchak” will be there as well, certainly.

Interviewer: This “Beis Yitzchak” really has been gaining momentum in recent years. Forty years have passed since the Rebbe expressed how much he wanted something like this to be established—and now it has come into being. Not long ago, I had the privilege of emceeing a gathering of more than 2,000 people. They could have stayed within their own four walls, in their homes, but instead they received light in their lives. I would really say that the Rebbe’s vision is being realized here.

Guest: First of all, it’s been 40 years. It’s true that there were many, many shluchim, and there were also a few branches for a long time. We even had eight branches. We had one in Ashdod, one in Tzfas, and we have one in Eli. It wasn’t exactly in this form, but it was an hour or an hour and a half a day, and then it would simply close and be left behind.

I once read a sicha of the Rebbe’s—I’d have to ask Chaim Shurat about this—in which the Rebbe says that, at the beginning, there were times when he spoke about things 40 years ahead.

Interviewer: Meaning that it was only expected to come to fruition 40 years later?

Guest: Could be; I don’t know. But this is one of the things the Rebbe spoke about personally, as something that mattered very much to him—very much to him personally. The Rebbe spoke about someone in his circle of friends and people close to him who would...

Interviewer: Take it upon himself?

Guest: Take it upon himself. And the Rebbe said, “I’m not choosing anyone,” as I said in the recording. “I’m not appointing anyone to run it.” The blessings are so powerful—both for children and for livelihood—that whoever runs it takes that upon himself. So the Rebbe didn’t say who should or shouldn’t run it. It belongs to each and every person.

Interviewer: The Rebbe named all the different groups, in fact? He named all the groups?

Guest: The Rebbe named them—it’s just... I don’t remember exactly.

Interviewer: The Litvak?

Guest: The Litvak, the Galicianer, the Polish Jew, the Sephardi, the chossid. He was simply concerned about division. The Rebbe spoke about that very, very strongly.

Why has it taken so long? Well, with Hashem’s help, we’ve done it together. At the beginning we had a partner who pushed it forward. Then Rabbi Levi Yitzchak came in and threw his full strength behind it, and now senior people are coming in too. We hope Rabbi Levi Yitzchak will lead us successfully.

Right now—in this week alone—we’ve opened another 20 Kollelei Kodesh.

Interviewer: Another 20 Kollelei Kodesh?

Guest: This week, boruch Hashem. We hope to reach 300 by the end of the year. Right now we’re at 240.

Interviewer: Impressive.

Guest: So I don’t know how many—within the year...

Interviewer: By “the end of the year,” do you mean the end of the Jewish year?

Guest: Yes. It was very, very interesting. We had a meeting—we have meetings together with the rabbi, and he simply makes time for this. So on Monday I was in New York, but there was a Zoom meeting with all the directors. He’s pushing it like crazy. He said, “I want there to be 300 kollelim by the end of the year.” And that doesn’t happen automatically.

We talked about it at [unclear], and the reaction was, “Are you crazy?!” I mean the end of the Jewish year. I can’t tell you the end of the civil year.

It will happen—I hope it will. Listen, none of this is simple. It also has to follow the Rebbe’s instructions exactly. The Rebbe wanted there to be at least a minyan, musical instruments, and [unclear]...

Interviewer: An actual, organized course of study?

Guest: Yes, yes. The way we want it done. I hope... Listen, these things are simply amazing. It’s truly amazing to see people, even people using walking sticks, people with [unclear]—quite apart from how skillfully they do the work. I don’t need to tell you: the event was truly extraordinary.

I put on events; I do things in New York. It’s not as if... I’m no professional, okay? But this was—wow, wow, wow. Beyond that, the way they do it there, with their love for the Rebbe—there are simply no words.

Interviewer: Everyone there lives and breathes it with us—there are simply no words, right?

Guest: Wow, they really want to hear from you. So I gave them a little instruction. I said, “But I’m not really entitled to give instructions; it’s just... a suggestion.” I said I thought the Rebbe had made this point. Two minutes later: “Do you have something brief?” They said, “The Rebbe said it? That settles it—give it to me!”

Interviewer: [Laughter] It gets done immediately.

Guest: That brings me to another aspect. Today, Kollel Chabad is a partner with the Israeli government on all kinds of welfare and nutrition projects, including food cards. You receive substantial funding; you bring your share, and the government brings its share.

Interviewer: My question, out of curiosity, is: Who influences whom more? Does Kollel Chabad influence the state, or does the state influence the Kollel’s priorities?

Guest: There’s no question in my mind that Kollel Chabad influences the state. These are things we had to bring about. Eventually we reached the government, and it was a battle—every single thing was a battle with the government. Twenty years ago it was opposed, absolutely opposed, to any distribution of food cards.

Interviewer: The government opposed it on principle?

Guest: It opposed it on principle. The reason they gave was...

Interviewer: That it makes people dependent?

Guest: Yes, that was the argument. But the difficulty was also that there weren’t clear criteria. If you say that poverty in Eretz Yisroel affects, say, 40%—aside from certain things the state can be sure of—how can the state use that? It can’t; the state can’t recognize 40%. But boruch Hashem, we assembled a team of some of the greatest experts in the country. We built those frameworks, with top people in government, and whatever we take on succeeds. So they introduced criteria—40%, and 56%. Things can change in a country, so it isn’t a fixed figure.

Interviewer: But that means that Kollel Chabad influences...

Guest: Unequivocally. You asked whether Kollel Chabad has an influence—it’s the one doing the influencing. And that’s despite the fact that this is for every sector, everyone. It even includes non-Jews.

Interviewer: Non-Jews too?

Guest: Yes. Everyone agrees that we do this. On that point, we’re [unclear]. They know it and understand that we do it.

Interviewer: It seems the Rebbe wanted it to be for each and every person.

Guest: I think the Rebbe once said something to Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, at his last yechidus, regarding Kollel Chabad. The Rebbe said—bread according to [unclear]—what they bring, right? There was an expression that it goes according to need, not according to statistics; quite the opposite. [unclear] And the Rebbe also said then that this applies even before a donor comes forward; it isn’t a matter of the money. It’s for every Jew. Yes, the Rebbe spoke about an absolute commitment to everyone, to each and every Jew.

Interviewer: Another area in which you do a great deal of work, and which I’ve personally had an opportunity to see up close, is the whole matter of widows and orphans. I feel I should mention my brother-in-law Itzik Marton here; he was an integral part of your work.

Guest: He was really one of the people behind the initiative—Chessed B’Amenu—which is an amazing undertaking.

Interviewer: An amazing undertaking. It looks after these orphans’ education and learning, helping them progress academically and in their development. It’s extraordinary.

I remember going to these children’s bar mitzvah celebrations year after year and seeing how the counselors and everyone else knew them by name, knew their personalities and all their needs.

Guest: They said Marton knew every single child, every orphan: his name, where he studied, who his teacher was, what he was going through—everything about each one. Later, of course, that became impossible; we have 2,000 children in the program. So they have six staff members, social workers. But they have clear guidelines. We have, in America, a special system called Salesforce, which tracks what’s done with each account. It’s usually for finances; they took that system and put it to work for the children’s benefit.

Interviewer: For the child’s benefit, yes?

Guest: Yes, and it suits what we’ve done. For our children and for the mothers—we’ve thought very, very hard about the widows and orphans. They’re there, giving of themselves 24 hours a day, six days a week. On Shabbos they’re at home. Wow. And there are also victims—[unclear]—these are things that...

Interviewer: That day—even if you were only going to be there a little while—you didn’t want to leave.

Guest: We talked about that, yes. Whenever you come in, I drive him crazy: “I need publicity.” For him, those were the worst days, the years when he had to put out a newspaper. It’s a matter of respect—we really don’t want to... These aren’t things you can write about.

Interviewer: Very sensitive.

Guest: Yes, very sensitive. Even now, I don’t say... Yes, we have two events today. We had an event yesterday, and last week we had a very, very moving event for 86 families—with children... We have 250 widows from the Iron Swords War whom we’re supporting.

Interviewer: You’re accompanying them?

Guest: Accompanying them. Supporting them in every way. One special aspect is that, in four places around the country, they have their own groups and do things together. We help them support one another. Once every three months, we take them away for 24 hours—just the widows, without the children.

Interviewer: A little time away from the children.

Guest: We have a place someone arranged for us, with everything they need. They also get 24 hours of quiet, without the children, without anyone else.

So just before that day when I was with you at the conference, I left. That afternoon, I said—I hadn’t known about it. I walked in, and they told me: 86 children, [unclear]. They were all starting school for the first time without a father. Their fathers had been killed in the war.

They put on an all-day barbecue for all those families together. Every child received a schoolbag and all the supplies they needed. They spoke with them patiently and gave them attention. Everyone came, you know—and each child was treated like a prince, as they say.

Interviewer: When a father is gone, a child goes to school on the first day alone—it’s something else.

Guest: Yes. Now there’s no father. So Mrs. Merton is the father and the mother. It was something... piercing, incredible. No publicity.

Interviewer: Away from the spotlight, no publicity, nothing.

Guest: I’m telling you, your brother-in-law will come and kill me because you’re talking about it at all.

Interviewer: If he hears this, he’ll come.

Guest: I’m afraid of that, yes. [Laughter] You know, he’s one of a kind. Their children are one of a kind, too, and she’s an eishes chayil.

Interviewer: An eishes chayil, a heroine. There’s no one like her.

Guest: Her [unclear], her organizational ability, her management skills—I’m not even talking about them. It’s simply an institution there. They do everything without fanfare.

Interviewer: Yes, you can see he does it with his whole heart.

Guest: It’s about seeing what’s needed. What they do is go the extra mile—that’s what I’m saying. Their extra mile goes [unclear], far beyond...

Interviewer: There’s no traffic there? You have no competitors?

Guest: Yes, there are competitors there. But once you get to... The people I work with there are truly our people. It’s not about me—we have incredible people, incredible people. Mendy says, and I joke about it: I tell my husband Mendy works from nine o’clock Israel time until five o’clock New York time. [Laughter]

Interviewer: Really without a break.

Guest: Really, really. Boruch Hashem. But it’s all a success—not my success. The successes belong to the Rebbe; it’s the Rebbe’s success. Everything we do is [unclear].

Interviewer: I want to ask you: In the past, before Gimmel Tammuz, when you had a weighty question, of course you wrote to the Rebbe and asked for an answer. What does someone in your position do when he has a question today?

Guest: The Rebbe... I have a rav, and I don’t decide anything on my own. There’s no check I write without speaking to my rav. He’s a learned rav, well versed in every area.

Interviewer: Speaking of “checks,” that word reminds me of two things. First, only in recent years did I learn this remarkable thing: every time before the Rebbe went to the Ohel, the Rebbe would write a check to Colel Chabad—a donation check. A donation?

Guest: Yes, a donation to Colel Chabad. It was actually part of the Rebbe’s preparation for leaving.

Interviewer: Well, you have to be very careful—I also heard this in [unclear].

Guest: Does it make a difference whether you heard that it was every time? Is that how he put it?

Interviewer: Could be.

Guest: What I know is that when the Rebbe went, we received $100—but I can’t say it was every time. [Laughter] Let me tell you this story, okay? The first time Rabbi Gronem Paley said to me, “Bring me a receipt for the Rebbe’s donation,” there were no computers or anything. It was a handwritten receipt. I wrote, “Received $100 from 770,” and gave him the receipt. Five minutes after I got back to the office, Rabbi Gronem paged me: “The Rebbe is asking whether the tax authorities will recognize it when it’s written that way.” [Laughter] It needed to say what it was intended for—that detail had been left out. That was the first time the Rebbe said he wasn’t sure whether our tax authorities would recognize it in that form—Section 46, Section 46. Incredible.

Interviewer: How the Rebbe wanted everything done properly. Yes, yes.

On the subject of donations, I want to ask: Were there times you had to say no to a donor because he set a condition you couldn’t meet?

Guest: Yes. There was a case where someone wanted a building named after him personally, and I told him, “I can’t do that.”

Interviewer: Why? Because you have a fixed policy on that, right?

Guest: The approach is always that the Rebbe’s name [unclear] is at the center. I’m not saying I have a policy—I’ve done it before, yes, I have.

Guest: And I was careful about it, yes. Before that, I didn’t remember; I didn’t think I had a problem with it. Some organizations want to be partners in a project, and you tell them, “Gentlemen, you can participate as private individuals, but not necessarily under your organization’s name.” If an organization asks whether we can partner with them, and the arrangement is tied to their funding, fine—that’s their name. But I don’t put my own name on it. There’s no such thing.

Interviewer: No such thing. Yes, no such thing.

Guest: The fact is that, over time, Israel’s chief rabbis have naturally always been guests—truly an integral part of every Colel Chabad event. You see it with the city rabbis, too. They all feel a need to be there; to them, it’s an event they always attend. Before Rosh Hashanah, all the rabbis show up—city rabbis, not necessarily from Chabad or even connected to it. Every newly appointed chief rabbi feels that being at Colel Chabad is part of his schedule. They invest time in it and give it thought.

Guest: First of all, they invest time. It’s not for me—it’s for the Rebbe’s honor, Rosh Hashanah [unclear]. As I told you earlier, the Rebbe says that when you hold an event, a farbrengen, you bring honor to the Rebbe. It has nothing to do with me; it’s about honoring the Rebbe. We don’t publicize people’s names there. It’s for the Rebbe’s honor; that’s the mitzvah. Yes, we do it as a mitzvah, but it’s not for me.

Interviewer: I want to ask you something else. Over the years, how many of your children and descendants have gone on shlichus—even to places like the Emirates and Morocco? Does that give you a sense that they’re continuing the shlichus, that the chain goes on? Boruch Hashem, right?

Guest: Yes, on shlichus, and also... I have three children working with me—my son Zalman, and Ephraim Yisraeli. And they’ve actually brought about a revolution, a real revolution.

Interviewer: In Israel?

Guest: No, not in Israel—in America. That whole subject I mentioned, the collection boxes—my son Zalman introduced it, and, boruch Hashem, it has really taken root.

Interviewer: And is there a goal you’re working toward? Are there other goals you want to reach? Beyond the 300 kollels [unclear] we spoke about—are there other goals you’re aiming for?

Guest: There are many goals, yes.

Interviewer: Such as?

Guest: Donors—the number of people donating to Chabad, the number we want to reach, in terms of funding, in terms of...

Interviewer: Projects.

Guest: Projects. I examine every project brought to us to see whether it fits our area of work.

Interviewer: In other words, you’re open to hearing ideas. If someone comes to you with a humanitarian need, you’ll listen?

Guest: Boruch Hashem. First of all, boruch Hashem, we have...

Interviewer: Your own goals.

Guest: Those are normal goals. Each time, we open a few more places where we distribute food. We’ve added two more; we had four, so now we have six. I’m aiming to reach 100,000 meals. I’m not sitting around doing nothing.

Guest: Besides, this whole thing is just a means of bringing honor to the Rebbe. It’s not that I’m a philanthropist, or that I think I need to bring... I need to bring honor to the Rebbe. That’s all. How that breaks down doesn’t really matter. Whoever wants to understand, understands. Absolutely.

(Laughter)

Interviewer: Is there anything else we haven’t talked about that you think is worth mentioning in this context?

(Laughter)

Guest: I... I do know this: it’s not at all a given that I’m sitting here, in this kind of format. I thank you for the time you’ve given me.

Interviewer: I know.

Guest: Yes. What won’t one do for... First of all, I already told you that I’m afraid of two—I told you at the farbrengen—that I’m afraid of two, of two...

Interviewer: Two types of people?

Guest: Two types of people: older people and extremists, who have time—(laughter)—and no responsibilities (laughter). They don’t have to answer to anyone; they can do whatever they want. Besides that, it’s very, very pleasant and enjoyable to sit with you and recall a few things—things I don’t always remember. And it’s a privilege for me to mention what I said: the Rebbe says that even the matter of the collection boxes is publicity—publicity for everyone.

Interviewer: Publicity for everyone.

Guest: It’s publicity for everyone. It’s very important—the Rebbe said it’s important.

Guest: Even publicizing oneself, and all that—that’s my job. My job is publicity. So if I’ve publicized a lot...

Interviewer: Yes, that’s what’s needed.

Interviewer: So thank you very much for the time you’ve given us. We’ll also thank Yosef David Savisa, who directed the production here, as always, and Yossi Rivkin, CEO of COL. Thank you all for joining us. See you in the next episode.