Elections for the Knesset, 5749

00:00 Speaker 1 Now, over the next few minutes, we’ll bring you a selection of the main things we broadcast. That was election night, and here are the results before us. Mahal, note this, compared with ’84: forty seats. The Alignment fell from forty-four to thirty-eight seats. Mahal, from forty-one to forty. The Alignment, from forty-four to thirty-eight. Agudas Yisroel rose from two to six seats. Agudas Yisroel, from two to six seats. Shas, from four seats to six seats. Shas, from four to six. The National Religious Party, from four seats to five seats.

00:51 Speaker 2 We see two secular blocs that are equal right down to the last seat, and we see that the key is in the hands of the religious parties. Now, it’s true that the religious parties, as they themselves say—and they’re still entitled to say so—are closer to the right-wing bloc than to the left-wing bloc.

01:21 Speaker 13 Based on the figures before us, it seems to us that the current situation calls on Likud, and enables Likud, to form Israel’s new government as soon as possible. Tomorrow we’ll begin meeting with those potential partners with whom, as we see it, we can form a government made up of groups that belong, in one way or another, to the national camp.

02:33 Speaker 21 I reject outright Likud’s attempt to claim all religious voters for itself. We know that religious voters are not all of one mind when it comes to political issues. That is the truth, and we, too, are mindful of it. We’ll wait for the final results. We’ll begin negotiations with the religious parties tonight and continue them throughout tomorrow.

03:05 Speaker 13 We will not fold up our flags. We’ll continue to fight for things we consider serious and decisive in the life of the country.

03:19 Speaker 22 There is no doubt that the situation that has arisen allows us to stand firm on our reasonable demands. But I want to be clear: we will not take advantage of our position to make unreasonable demands. After all, our Sages of blessed memory have taught us: “One does not impose a decree on the public unless the public can abide by it.” But within the bounds of what is reasonable, we will certainly stand firm on reasonable demands that are essential for a Jewish state, which must have a clear and unmistakable Jewish character.

03:50 Speaker 23 By the way, on that subject, Rabbi Peretz, I’m the messenger here in the studio. The Prime Minister’s Office asked you to call him as soon as the interview ends. I think you’ll indeed call him when we finish this broadcast.

04:02 Speaker 22 Absolutely.

04:03 Speaker 24 When I read the numbers—and the numbers speak for themselves—I see that, for now, the left-wing bloc does not have enough seats to block a majority. That worries me greatly, because I think I can see who might have those seats. It sends a real shiver through me when I see the potential candidates for the other government. As a citizen of this country, I’m filled with anxiety.

04:26 Speaker 23 What would be ideal for you in terms of what you hope to achieve in a government you might join—perhaps a right-wing government headed by Shamir? What, specifically, would you want to achieve that we haven’t seen until now?

04:39 Speaker 25 First of all, we are not happy—we were not happy—with a national unity government. I personally left the coalition.

04:49 Speaker 23 In terms of achievements, actual achievements.

04:50 Speaker 25 Achievements? What do you want?

04:51 Speaker 23 Religious legislation, religious legislation.

04:53 Speaker 25 Certainly religious legislation, and clear religious legislation: the Who Is a Jew law, the authorization law, the... recent erosion of everything, even the existing status quo, including the authority of the rabbinical courts, and so on. We cannot agree to the continuation of such an approach. If we know and see that cooperation beyond the status quo is possible, I think we’ll then be able to agree on the course, the approach, the way to form a coalition.

05:30 Speaker 24 Does the makeup of the Alignment give you hope that the status quo will be better for—for—

05:34 Speaker 25 I don’t know.

05:35 Speaker 24 For the religious parties.

05:35 Speaker 25 I assume that if the Alignment wants to form a government, it will certainly make far-reaching concessions.

05:42 Speaker 26 Three seats for Mapam is certainly a very respectable achievement, and I’m very pleased about it. But I’m very worried about the future of Israeli society in light of the results, if the sample is indeed accurate. The fact that Gandhi was invited here is an indication of...

05:57 Speaker 23 That he won two seats in the Knesset.

05:58 Speaker 26 Yes, because it’s an indication—right, no, I have no complaint against you—but it’s an indication of a terrible distortion that may, G-d forbid, take hold in Israeli society. So I can’t take comfort in Mapam’s great achievement in these elections, and I still place my hopes in the good sense of the religious parties, that they will help form a government of peace.

06:20 Speaker 23 Danny, does the very idea of transfer determine, from now until the government is formed, which coalition path you’re headed down?

06:28 Speaker 26 Do you have any doubt?

06:30 Speaker 23 Perhaps you could explain that in a few words.

06:33 Speaker 26 The center-left and left-wing bloc is led today by people whose loyalty to the whole Land of Israel is doubtful in my eyes, and I will not join them.

06:44 Speaker 23 Plain and simple.

06:45 Speaker 26 Plain and simple.

06:46 Speaker 27 I suggest we not rush. The sample in the Arab sector does not faithfully reflect what is happening. I hope the people watching will wait until the Progressive List receives—or until they announce—its actual share of the vote, and I hope it will give the left enough seats to block the right.

07:10 Speaker 23 Do you believe you’ll still get the third seat?

07:12 Speaker 27 I’m almost certain.

07:14 Speaker 23 Minister Yitzhak Modai, do you see the possibility of another national unity government in light of these results?

07:20 Speaker 3 May Hashem protect us, first of all. I’d like to take this opportunity to congratulate the religious parties on their success.

07:27 Speaker 23 Shall we send a special messenger to Rabbi Peretz?

07:30 Speaker 3 I don’t send messengers. I’m speaking with you right now, and we—

07:35 Speaker 23 But that congratulation, of course, also carries political weight. It’s not just a congratulation.

07:41 Speaker 3 That congratulation reflects the fact that the religious parties received fifteen seats. And what did Rabbi Peretz say? He’s sitting and waiting now, with Hashem’s help.

07:53 Speaker 23 First, to that much-discussed conversation, which took place just a few minutes ago in the room next to us. What was said?

08:01 Speaker 4 I don’t know whether the Prime Minister would want me to reveal secrets, but in fact there are no secrets here. A meeting was arranged between the two of us.

08:07 Speaker 23 When?

08:08 Speaker 4 With Hashem’s help, within the next twenty-four hours.

08:11 Speaker 23 And the specific subject of that meeting—what did you agree it would be?

08:14 Speaker 4 The subject is not a question in the Talmud, but a political question about forming a coalition.

08:19 Speaker 23 Let’s talk for a moment about the real possibility of a national unity government. People keep talking about it. Would you join such a government under certain conditions, or do you rule it out entirely?

08:32 Speaker 5 We ruled it out four years ago, and today we have even less appetite for it. And after hearing what the Alignment thinks of Likud and what Likud thinks of the Alignment, I don’t understand on what basis people say the public wants a national unity government. Such a government would be a disaster for the Jewish people.

08:49 Speaker 23 Are you satisfied with the result? Are two seats what you expected?

08:54 Speaker 6 It’s better than nothing. But when people asked me what our chances were and what we expected, I said anywhere from zero to a hundred and twenty.

09:06 Speaker 7 I assume that if this is the final result, it means an increase in votes for the Hadash list, and that is the most important thing. I also hope that, as the count nears completion, we’ll consolidate and strengthen what we’ve won. On the other hand, I think every serious person who cares about peace and democracy must be concerned by these results, if they are confirmed by the final count.

09:47 Speaker 8 I welcome the growth in strength of the religious camp. The Jewish people are bound to the Land of Israel and the Torah of Israel. It has been shown that people have faith in the Torah of Israel. I congratulate everyone who succeeded, and we are part of that. Of course, we’ll be glad to see it grow stronger still.

10:01 Speaker 4 You haven’t answered me. Will you work to unite all the religious parties so there won’t be a split as there was in the previous Knesset?

10:07 Speaker 8 I had the great privilege of establishing the religious lobby in the previous Knesset. We met for about two and a half years, and I’m glad that all the parties took part. I’m convinced that this time there is all the more reason to sit together and safeguard the Shabbos of the Jewish people, authentic Jewish education, the Jewish character of the state and the Jewish identity of the state. Together, we will certainly advance those goals in the best possible way, with Hashem’s help.

10:31 Speaker 9 To my left, in front of me, are empty chairs. A few people are still here. None of the leaders remain; they’ve all gone. And it seems to me that in a few minutes, the guard will take the key and bring the Labor Party’s election night to a close.

10:48 Speaker 10 Mr. Prime Minister, from the way you speak, you’re convinced that you will indeed be the next prime minister, that you will head Israel’s next government.

10:57 Speaker 11 As things stand, so it appears.

11:02 Speaker 12 Yes, those are excerpts from the broadcasts on that long night, and now we can look at the table showing 100 percent of the votes. All the votes, apart from the soldiers’ votes, have been counted—though there may be an incorrect percentage here or there—and the table is before you. Again, apart from the soldiers’ votes. Machal, thirty-nine; Emet, thirty-eight, thirty-eight. We’re talking about seats. Shas, six; Bet, five; Gimel, five; Vav, five; Ratz, five; Mapam, three; Tav, three; Shinui, two seats; Tet, two; Ayin, two; Peh, two; Tzadi-Heh, two; Ayin, one. We’ll return to this table a little later, perhaps very briefly. Professor Yochanan Peres has been with us all night. The soldiers’ votes—we heard earlier from Knesset member Dan Meridor. The soldiers’ votes: what are they, four or five seats? Could they fundamentally change the picture?

12:07 Speaker 14 Certainly not fundamentally. But the Tehiya party is expected to gain somewhat. Based on past experience with soldiers’ votes, Ratz may also gain; it may or may not get its sixth seat. And the combined total for the charedi parties is expected to drop somewhat once the soldiers’ votes are included. But all that—

12:40 Speaker 12 What’s your overall assessment?

12:41 Speaker 14 All that amounts to a seat one way or the other. No more.

12:46 Speaker 12 What’s your overall assessment of these elections, the 1988 elections?

12:50 Speaker 14 There are four population groups that form the demographic foundation of Israel’s political structure: Jews of Middle Eastern descent, Ashkenazi Jews, Arabs, and religious groups. Political power in Israel is divided among these four forces, and that is even more apparent in these elections. The strength of the religious parties stems from the almost equal division—effectively equal, with a difference of one seat—between the main secular forces. And the power of the Arabs is limited by whether or not the Jews reach a decision.

13:45 Speaker 12 Yes. Was this an election for the big parties or the small ones?

13:49 Speaker 14 For the small ones, actually. All the claims that one seat more or less for one of the big parties is what makes the difference were disproved in these elections. I’m not saying that’s true in every situation, but in the situation before us, what matters is the coalition base of small parties that are able or willing to go with one leader or the other of the major parties. The defeat, as Labor feels it, did not stem from Labor having one seat fewer than Likud.

14:22 Speaker 12 I see. Now perhaps we can quickly look at two slides we have here. One is called, in our jargon, “new urban areas,” meaning mainly development towns, or what we used to call development towns. At a glance, there’s a certain drop for Machal, a fairly similar drop for Emet, a rise for Shas, and a tremendous rise for Agudat Yisrael. And in the new settlements—what we called new settlements—the same goes for the National Religious Party. A certain drop for Tehiya, the Secular Movement. T"S is two above the national average, Tzadi-Heh is above the national average, and Ratz. Perhaps we’ll replace this diagram with one more table, comparing them with established cities. Established cities, what we used to call the old-established population. Here we see a small lead for Machal. We see a certain drop for Emet, though not a dramatic one. Ratz has doubled, and the National Religious Party has held its ground. Shas has risen slightly. Gimel, Agudat Yisrael, has risen quite dramatically. A small drop for Tehiya, and Moledet and Tzadi-Heh, of course—those last two were at the national average. What do we learn from comparing the established cities with the development towns?

15:46 Speaker 14 In fact, it’s an asymmetrical demographic division. The newer cities, as their name suggests, were populated by immigrants who arrived in the 1950s—immigrants from Europe as well, it should be said. But the European immigrants were drawn out of them by a number of developments, including the reparations payments, and the cities remained populated almost entirely by Jews of Middle Eastern descent. That is why the balance there favors Likud. In what are called established cities, by contrast, the population is mixed, both old-established and newer. We should remember that the newer population is twice the size of the old-established population. So there is an appearance of balance there, when in fact the right-wing parties dominate among the newer population, while among the older population—that is, those who have been in the Land of Israel longer—Labor is still dominant, and before—[unclear].

16:46 Speaker 15 I just want to make one small point. When you look closely, there is something new in this election’s results. It is common to both the established cities and the development towns: the dramatic rise of the charedi parties.

17:02 Speaker 14 Of course.

17:02 Speaker 15 Shas and Agudat Yisrael.

17:04 Speaker 14 Of course.

17:04 Speaker 15 That’s something new that we haven’t seen until now.

17:07 Speaker 14 Well, we talked about that throughout the night and this morning: groups that had not participated in the political process were stirred to take part. Some did so because of the rabbis’ call, and some because of a reason seemingly unrelated to the overall political picture: internal competition in the charedi community. Those are the reasons this faction has grown stronger in Israeli politics.

17:34 Speaker 15 Thank you very much, Professor Peres. Dalia Mazor now takes us abroad.

17:39 Speaker 16 Well, we have some initial reactions from around the world. In the United States, people followed the results of the Israeli elections with great interest tonight. Administration leaders refrained from making an official comment, as did the two presidential candidates, George Bush and Michael Dukakis. Commentators agree that the diplomatic stalemate in the Middle East will continue for a long time. On the Israeli election results as seen from Washington, our correspondent there, Nissim Mishal.

18:08 Speaker 17 Labor or in Likud headquarters tonight, when Israel Television projected that both major parties will have the same number of seats in Israel's next parliament.

18:16 Speaker 18 That was part of the extensive coverage the major television networks gave the Israeli election results. The conclusion was that Yitzhak Shamir has the best chance of forming a government under his leadership, and reactions followed the reports. Administration officials and members of Congress expressed concern about a period of uncertainty and prolonged negotiations to form a new government in Israel. They also expressed hope that the next government would be strong enough to make difficult diplomatic decisions. Most commentators here agree that the diplomatic stalemate in the Middle East will continue for a long time, and some believe a new American administration will undertake vigorous diplomatic initiatives to resolve the Middle East conflict. One of them is journalist Larry Nelson.

19:00 Speaker 17 You won't find the American political reaction to your election until next Tuesday, when our own presidential election is over. For the past eleven months, all American politicians have not felt free to say what they really think about the Middle East. They have not responded to the way Israel has handled the troubles on the West Bank. They've kept pretty quiet. Once the election is over, if Vice President Bush is president, he's been pretty passive. However, Vice President Bush and his likely secretary of state, who will be James Baker, both come from the Texas oil community. Texas oil men do not regard the Arabs as villains. They know the Arab community probably better than any other single part of the American political community. I don't think either of them is going to want to give the Likud a blank check just to continue with shootings on the West Bank with no other plan for a settlement.

19:49 Speaker 18 The Jewish establishment is not united in its response. The Reform leadership, headed by Rabbi Alexander Schindler, is concerned about the growing strength of the religious parties, but the chairman of the Conference of Presidents, Morris Abram, prefers to emphasize what they have in common and what unites them.

20:03 Speaker 17 I don't think we in this country cared which side won. Some were for one Shamir, some for Peres. I think we were very anxious to see a government that was decisive and could speak with one voice.

20:14 Speaker 16 As if

20:18 Speaker 18 This is the Jewish community center in Washington. Here, as in some twenty other Jewish communities across the United States, many Jews gathered to watch the election broadcasts from Israel. Some of those gathered here are young people preparing to move to Israel. The election results in Israel are certainly drawing a great deal of interest here, but it is worth emphasizing that America, and especially the administration’s leaders, are almost entirely occupied with the Bush–Dukakis contest, which will be decided next week. Until a new president enters the White House this coming January, the diplomatic stalemate in the Middle East will continue. Nissim Mishal, Washington.

21:10 Speaker 19 And from the United States to Europe. In France, in light of the emerging results, ministers expressed hope today that the uncertainty in Israeli domestic politics could be resolved quickly and, as they put it, that progress toward peace could be made, whoever leads the country. Three ministers in France’s Socialist government stressed tonight that they would work to strengthen ties with Israel regardless of who becomes prime minister in Jerusalem. Our correspondent in Paris, Yoav Toker, reported to us this morning.

21:41 Speaker 20 [unclear] in Paris continued until the early hours of the morning in a tense atmosphere.

00:04 Speaker 1 That’s good. I’ll be good. I’ll be good. I’ll do good. I’ll take care of myself for Hashem. The heart. Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart, Hashem, the heart.

01:27 Speaker 2 Blessed is He Who has granted us life, sustained us, and brought us to this time. How fortunate we are to have lived to see this night, after a struggle of hatred, a struggle of animosity.

01:45 Speaker 1 Because this is what happened here: a new party arose, splitting off from Agudas Yisroel. They wanted to fight Agudas Yisroel and started putting out all kinds of inflammatory writings and things like that. Then emotions flared, and that’s how it happens everywhere.

02:00 Speaker 2 I think he’s lying. He’s presenting, he’s presenting only one side. He’s presenting an incorrect position.

02:08 Speaker 1 Sir, but I’m speaking with someone. Speaking.

02:10 Speaker 2 The incitement came from here.

02:12 Speaker 1 When we say that the hand of the chassidim will prevail, tonight’s victory is also a victory for the way of Chassidus, a victory of unity over conflict, a victory of Ahavas Yisroel over hatred. It is the victory of the path that seeks to bring hearts closer together over those who preached driving hearts apart. And tonight, the entire chareidi community has embraced this path: the path of unity, of bringing hearts closer together, of Ahavas Yisroel. As the esteemed Vizhnitzer Rebbe shlita said two weeks ago in his second declaration, we were promised that when the way of the Baal Shem Tov spreads, the Geulah will come. This is the spreading of the Baal Shem Tov’s way: tonight, unity and Ahavas Yisroel won.

03:25 Speaker 3 Every single person here today, and every person who is not here today, must remember and repeat to himself day and night: What did the Lubavitcher Rebbe invest in this? Many, many people are still crying out in the streets and asking, “What for?” After all, he stood above it all. His stature was far, far above all the parties. So what for? Why did he need to get involved? I don’t even intend to explain it. But once he entered the campaign, we owe him our thanks and blessings for giving us this great miracle and this great deliverance. To him we owe our thanks, and to him we owe our blessings. Let us wish him long life and good years. Amen. May he fight the wars of Hashem and prevail. Amen. And may he lead us to our righteous Moshiach, now, now, now. We want Shlomo, We want Shlomo, We want Shlomo, We want Shlomo, We want Shlomo, We want Shlomo, We want Shlomo. The new Knesset members who are now joining us, ladies and gentlemen: the success of this list was not decided on 21 Cheshvan, but before Pesach, when I visited the Lubavitcher Rebbe shlita at his home. The Rebbe told me: “Let them all form one Agudah, and Poalei Agudas Yisroel as one.”

05:38 Speaker 4 One faction, then another faction. Factionalism. The Jewish people today face some of the most difficult challenges in their history, yet they squander the strength within them because they cannot unite. But there is another way. Two parties that went their separate ways for many years have united on one list. Two parties knew how to bridge their differences and reconcile their positions. Agudas Yisroel and Poalei Agudas Yisroel are one association: United Agudas Yisroel. A movement that combines Torah with practical life. A movement involved in the life of the people and the land, and committed to the integrity of the Torah, the Jewish people, and the Land of Israel. A bridgehead for unity has been established here, and that is why the Lubavitcher Rebbe supports it.

06:35 Speaker 5 The Lubavitcher Rebbe has managed to do things no one else has managed to do. I believe that this time he is going to unite the people, so I’ll vote Gimel.

06:43 Speaker 4 Chabad supports one Agudah. Chabad supports uniting the factions into one river. Vote Gimel.

06:54 Speaker 6 Machal, note the comparison with ’84: forty seats. The Alignment fell from forty-four to thirty-eight seats. Machal went from forty-one to forty; the Alignment from forty-four to thirty-eight. Agudas Yisroel rose from two to six seats. Agudas Yisroel, from two to six seats.

07:23 Speaker 7 What actually happened?

07:24 Speaker 8 Yes, something unusual happened, and it’s still hard to assess. But there are probably two things we can say, and you could see them clearly in the results you mentioned. People who aren’t chareidi, perhaps not even religious, voted for chareidi parties. And there was also an appeal by the Lubavitcher Rebbe to traditional Jews, to people who are somewhat religious but certainly not chareidi. I assume that brought in many of the votes. For the first time in its history, Chabad entered the political arena, and it entered as a meteoric force, as we are now seeing. They brought Agudas Yisroel five seats, perhaps even more—we’ll still see—and that force produced an impressive number of seats.

08:38 Speaker 9 There are no words to describe the self-sacrifice of the activists in every place. We want to thank them all, beginning with the head of the campaign headquarters here, Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Aharonov.

09:06 Speaker 10 We are confident that we will indeed fulfill our mission faithfully and successfully. And I have one more hope. I hope that in the merit of this unity, in the merit of this enthusiastic work for unity and for the honor of the tzaddikim, we will merit the coming of Moshiach immediately, so that we won’t have to enter the Knesset.