Your Child Has Become a Teenager? Time to "Update the Version" in Education | Rabbi Meir Dovid #007

00:00 Speaker 1 Adolescence. Two words that say so much to all of us, whether we’re parents of a teenager or teenagers ourselves. For this episode, I sat down with Rabbi Meir David, an educational counselor at the Chassidic Technological Institute. The result is an episode full of insights. I highly recommend it to everyone. I’m Meir Vishnapsky, and you’re listening to On Chabad Education. Rabbi Meir David, welcome.

00:20 Speaker 2 Glad to be here. It’s a pleasure. Thank you for the invitation and the hospitality.

00:25 Speaker 1 I, I—

00:26 Speaker 2 Yasher koach.

00:26 Speaker 1 I wasn’t planning to say this, but first of all, you’ve become a very central part of helping this program and this channel move forward. Yasher koach to you. We really, really appreciate it, and thank you for being a partner in this.

00:39 Speaker 2 Right back at you.

00:41 Speaker 1 Okay, so let’s get into it a little. Let’s put it on the table: adolescence. Young parents, older parents, the boys themselves—we all encounter it. So much has been written about it, and so much has been said. Let’s try today to touch on it and bring some order to it: the parents’ role, and, toward the end, to speak to the boys themselves about this period, this age. Let’s begin.

01:08 Speaker 2 Great. Before we start, before we dive into adolescence, I’d like to say something from my personal experience. I’ve worked in this whole field of youth for many, many years—almost twenty years—with adolescents from early adolescence through the later stages. And I can tell you that I’m constantly learning new things. We’re constantly learning new things. I’m going to say something now that, if someone doesn’t have time to listen to the whole podcast, I hope they’ll at least remember this: as parents of teenagers, we have to keep up to date on adolescence. You opened by saying that adolescence is something people talk about a great deal, something well known. Yet I’m constantly surprised by how little we know about it, how little we understand it, and how hard it is for us to translate what we know in theory into practice, into specific situations that suddenly happen right here and now. Boom—you’re faced with a situation. Your son calls you from yeshiva and says, “Listen, Dad, I want to come home, and I want to make up some story for the rabbi at yeshiva.” It happens. We encounter it all the time in yeshivos; I hear it from parents. It happens, and you don’t know what to do. Suddenly you think, wait, but I know what adolescence is. I’ve studied it, heard about it, read about it. So how is it that, in the end, I don’t know what to do with it? I think it’s because if we don’t keep engaging with it, reading about it, talking about it and getting familiar with it, then at the moment of truth it disappears. Apart from something theoretical that I know about adolescence,

03:00 Speaker 2 nothing remains. So I’m glad you’ve invited me here and that we’re talking about it. And of course I’m not the only person with something to say on the subject. There are many others who really do have something to say. But first I want to say: listen to what’s being said, take it in, and let’s put it into practice. Let’s make it something real and part of everyday life, because as parents, this is something we’re meant to accompany our children through. Okay, let’s—

03:29 Speaker 1 Let’s begin.

03:29 Speaker 2 We’re already getting into the subject itself.

03:33 Speaker 1 Yes, so what is it? What age is it? When does it happen? Let’s try to—

03:36 Speaker 2 Okay.

03:37 Speaker 1 Get into that a little...

03:38 Speaker 2 So let’s start more from the Jewish, Chassidic approach, okay? I’ll call it that, because it will also give us insights later on from a psychological perspective—I’m not sure what to call it. I think it will give us a deeper understanding, certainly for a Chabad audience, for people who observe Torah and mitzvos and whose lives are founded on emunah and Chassidus. So, at twelve or thirteen, every girl or boy becomes bas mitzvah or bar mitzvah. What does bar mitzvah or bas mitzvah mean? It means this child is beginning a path of their own. There’s the well-known story of a bar mitzvah boy who came to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe told him, “Now you become a player. Now it’s your game.” Perhaps those words, “your game,” are the title of adolescence, because it starts becoming his game. Until now, it was our game as parents. The obligation was on us, the education was on us, the work was on us. Here, his work begins. And it’s a wonderful period. First of all, let’s reassure all the listeners: it’s a wonderful, amazing period. The Rebbe speaks about the special quality of youth: its intensity, its strength, its energy to act. You don’t find that in children in the same way. Children have energy to run wild and so on, as we all experience in our own homes. But the energy to act, to do things, to do good and to make an impact on the world—that’s something you find in youth, in adolescence. When we know how to channel it properly and work with it, as the Rebbe guides parents in his letters, we’ll be able to draw a great deal of benefit from it, because it really is a special,

05:38 Speaker 2 wonderful period in our lives. Incidentally, if we look at human development, the greatest development a person undergoes in life takes place in the first two years. Every parent sees that and knows it. A child goes from being unable to move, completely helpless, to suddenly becoming a child who practically runs the house. That’s the greatest development. The second greatest development in life happens during adolescence. There’s suddenly an enormous leap, and that’s no accident, because it’s almost like being born again. Almost like being born again. Suddenly this child becomes somebody. Suddenly he becomes a person in his own right. And in a sense, that’s what we all dream of, isn’t it? That our child will be a person in his own right, that he’ll be somebody. Well, here he is becoming that person. This is where it happens, and what we do at that stage matters a great deal.

06:42 Speaker 7 Everyone, another episode of On Chabad Education is underway. If you connect with what’s happening here, click “Follow” on one of the platforms. The more our community grows, the more we’ll be able to bring in special guests and create content of the highest quality. Be part of the journey. Let’s continue. So we’ve talked a little about the age. When does this happen? At thirteen, twelve—is that the time?

07:06 Speaker 2 That’s an excellent question. In Judaism, we do find that at twelve or thirteen a child becomes an adult, responsible for their actions, and can fulfill mitzvos. “He became a man,” right? When the verse says of Shimon and Levi, “Each man took his sword,” we know they were thirteen years old, right?

07:28 Speaker 7 Yes.

07:28 Speaker 2 At thirteen, a person becomes a man. Today we know, and we can already see, that while the age of obligation in mitzvos—the eternal Torah—doesn’t change, the signs of adolescence begin at much younger ages. I would recommend that parents start paying attention at age nine or ten. With some children, you’ll really see the various signs of adolescence: outbursts, arguments, insisting more strongly on their own opinions, or suddenly wanting to—

08:09 Speaker 7 Push the boundaries.

08:10 Speaker 2 Yes, push the boundaries and question all sorts of accepted ideas. So when you notice that kind of behavior, know that your child is beginning adolescence. It’s quite likely to happen at nine or ten. It’s not far-fetched at all; it happens. Today, we already see signs of adolescence in nine- and ten-year-olds, sometimes even physical development. Not just emotional development, but physical development too. And often it can come together—actually, it does come together.

08:47 Speaker 7 Usually.

08:48 Speaker 2 The changes. The moment a child starts developing physically, then, if he’s healthy emotionally, of course, and his development is normal, it will often come with some emotional development too. That will have effects and implications. I won’t go into all the reasons now, but these things usually come together. And when you see your nine- or ten-year-old starting to look like a teenager or sound like a teenager—it might be in his tone of voice, or suddenly he’s arguing with you more—then you know: okay, he’s reached adolescence.

09:29 Speaker 7 So the first thing is simply to pay attention. At these ages, we parents already need to be watching for it.

09:34 Speaker 2 Absolutely, pay attention, because it’s critical. I think that’s important.

09:40 Speaker 7 Yes, but that’s what I wanted to ask. I’ve noticed it—what does that mean? Do I need to... I just carry on as usual, right? What—

09:46 Speaker 2 Okay.

09:47 Speaker 7 What changes in our role? After that we’ll talk about the young person.

09:51 Speaker 2 Well, adolescence brings a lot of roles into play. Okay, I’ll focus on the parents’ role. Maybe later we’ll touch on other roles involved here. But as a parent, as you mentioned and as I said earlier, I have to notice that my child has entered adolescence, because the way I speak to him and the way I educate him—what worked until now—changes a little. It changes a little. What do I mean? Each of us learns, in our own way and through experience, how to raise our children. You can’t raise a seven-year-old the way you raise a nine- or ten-year-old who’s entering adolescence. And it’s not just because he’s two years older. His whole system is starting to work differently. His whole system is changing. For example, if you offer a word of criticism to a seven-year-old, he’ll receive it very differently from the way an—

11:01 Speaker 7 Adolescent.

11:01 Speaker 2 An adolescent. Okay, and that could be at age nine. On the other hand, if you compliment a seven-year-old, he’ll receive that very differently from an adolescent. So your wavelength, your messages, have to fit his age and where he is. Because if you speak to an adolescent as if he were a little child, he’ll feel that you don’t know him. You don’t see him; you don’t recognize who he is. You’re living in the world of a father of young children, and he’s no longer there. So you’re not communicating. You’re not talking to each other. You’re talking; maybe you’re giving a lecture, maybe you’re a wonderful speaker, but you’re not on his wavelength at all. So there has to be a switch. And the first switch I think we need to make—beyond recognizing that this is adolescence and telling myself, “Okay, my child is now an adolescent”—the first switch is to realize, and whoever needs to read about it or listen to something about it or study it should do so, that I have to change something in my usual approach. I’ll offer some basics here, but I’m saying—

12:26 Speaker 7 I don’t know if we’ll manage to cover everything today.

12:27 Speaker 2 Yes, but even before those basics and what to do, there’s this deep understanding that I have to change. I have to change. I have to make a switch, because otherwise I’m not growing along with my child. I might remain a parent of little children while my children are growing up, and that’s usually a recipe for less success, let’s put it that way. So what can we actually change?

12:56 Speaker 7 What does it mean to be the parent of an adolescent?

12:59 Speaker 2 What does it mean to be the parent of an adolescent? First of all, it’s an experience. It’s an experience that comes along in the middle of your life, after you’re sure you’re the best parent there is and you already know all the methods. You know exactly how to set boundaries, you know how to handle the children, and you and your wife congratulate yourselves that by seven o’clock all the children are in bed—and suddenly everything turns upside down. Suddenly everything you knew, everything you were familiar with, everything you’d heard—even what you’d heard about adolescence, as I said before—and suddenly you’re faced with reactions, conversations, wishes, things you hadn’t encountered before. Now, it’s important to me to qualify this: not every parent with adolescent children at home has the same experience.

13:58 Speaker 7 Mm.

13:58 Speaker 2 Okay, I don’t know, maybe you’ll want us to talk about this later, but it’s an issue. In other words, as part of understanding that I need to shift gears with my child, I also need to understand that I’ll have to adjust that approach for each of my children. Okay? Not every child experiences adolescence the same way, and as a parent, you won’t experience adolescence the same way with every child. You need to pay attention to how you can respond appropriately to this particular child during his adolescence. And—

14:33 Speaker 7 This is something I wonder about. You know, no one teaches us parents this. To drive a car on the road, you need a license, and every few years you need to—well, you know, if someone gets points on their license or something like that, they have to... But parenting, you just find yourself doing it. It sounds like something very—

14:58 Speaker 2 Right. Right, and that’s why I said at the outset: look, we’re talking here about adolescence. I believe there are another, I don’t know, twenty podcasts about adolescence. How many of us as parents listen to these things? And how many of us as parents actually try to put what they say into practice?

15:22 Speaker 7 Yes.

15:22 Speaker 2 Now, usually we don’t feel we need this unless we run into a difficulty that really troubles us. Then we might go for advice, and we might get there a little late. That can happen too. What I’m saying is, if you’re parents who don’t yet have adolescent children but will, or if you’re now noticing that your children are beginning adolescence, gather information. Gather information, consult people, talk to parents who have already been through it. That, in my opinion, is the very best thing: simply talk to parents who have adolescent children. Listen to them. Suddenly you’ll discover that many of the things you’re experiencing, other people have already experienced firsthand. They’ve been through these difficulties, and they have an approach, some direction to offer. But we mustn’t become complacent. We mustn’t become complacent, because adolescence, the teenage years, isn’t something to take for granted, okay? It’s not something you just drift into; it’s something you have to get through. But, and I want to stress this again, there will be people listening to this podcast who’ll say, “What does he want? What’s the problem? I have four, five, six, seven adolescent sons and daughters. Everything’s fine, everything’s lovely. Okay, there’s a little of this and that.” True, that happens. So be thankful. But I’m saying that even with children like that, there’s something to discuss about their adolescence. And no, I’m not—perhaps we’ll get into that shortly. But certainly, for parents who encounter difficulties and need to know how to deal with them, this understanding is a very, very important foundation for navigating adolescence.

17:20 Speaker 8 Okay, so I’m trying to go through this step by step. We talked about the age; it can start early. The first thing is to pay attention. That’s the first thing.

17:26 Speaker 2 Yes.

17:27 Speaker 8 And it requires us to change.

17:28 Speaker 2 Right.

17:29 Speaker 8 And that change can be painful, because we may be at the height of feeling, “I’m a good parent. I know what I’m doing. Everything at home is running smoothly. I’m raising my children.” But then suddenly there’s a change, and we need to change too. What change do we need to make? And before that, we qualified it: it depends on the child you have, and even from one child to another you need to keep adjusting it—updating the software from time to time. But my question is: okay, what change do I need to make? What can I even start with?

17:58 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

17:58 Speaker 8 My child is entering adolescence, there are reactions, and I’m noticing them.

18:01 Speaker 2 So, let me offer a few things. This certainly isn’t everything, but these are points that apply fairly broadly, to almost every kind of teenager. First, we need to move toward dialogue. With a younger child, our communication is more about boundaries, instructions, and demands. With a teenager, that often works less well, for a very simple reason: he’s growing up. What does that mean? A teenager’s task at this age is to ask: Who am I? What is my identity? What makes me unique? How am I separate from my parents? How am I different from other people? What’s special about me?

18:56 Speaker 8 A kind of journey begins.

18:57 Speaker 2 Right. Now, when I or someone else tells him what to do, it can feel like a challenge to his sense of self. We know about bittul in Chassidus, and it’s true—we really do work on that. But in the relationship between parents and teenagers, it’s much harder and much more delicate. Maybe this is a point I didn’t really want to get into, but I’ll expand on it a little. When a mashpia comes to the yeshiva, farbrengs with the boys, and asks them to have bittul, that’s a genuine, proper Chassidic demand. There aren’t personal emotions or hurt feelings involved. A mashpia doesn’t take offense if a boy doesn’t show bittul afterward, okay? Or if he suggests that a boy do something and the boy doesn’t do it. That element isn’t there. But in the close family setting, between parents and children, the emotions are intense. Really intense, and very raw. The reaction immediately becomes, “This child is going to do whatever he wants. He doesn’t help at home, he doesn’t…” Everything rises to a much higher emotional level, and that undermines everything that was said. Let’s put it this way: You sat down with your son and told him, “Listen, Chabad Chassidus demands pnimius. You need to get up in the morning and learn Chassidus.” All well and good. But he didn’t do it, and naturally, you reacted emotionally. Your feelings, your concerns, your fears, your hopes, your disappointments—they all converge on that one moment when he didn’t get up in the morning. It all comes down on him, and the response reflects that. Getting up for davening no longer—

20:59 Speaker 2 It no longer remains a matter you can discuss on its own terms. Yes, exactly—the response reflects all of that. It doesn’t remain a matter on its own terms. It becomes some sort of catastrophe, some sort of disaster, something that makes him feel, “Just leave me alone.” And so… how did we get onto all this? The point is that, as parents, when we speak with our teenagers, it first needs to be a conversation. We need to let go of the stance of a mashpia, a teacher, or an educator. Because as a parent, at this stage, that isn’t your role. Some parents may be shocked to hear that, but yes. You also see it in the Rebbe’s letters to parents whose child isn’t learning, or is having some other difficulty: the Rebbe writes that they should find other people who can influence him. That isn’t incidental. As a teenager, he needs to find his own separate identity; he isn’t looking to be you. And he isn’t necessarily trying not to be you, either. What he’s really looking for is himself: How do I become me? He may end up exactly like you. Perhaps you were exactly like him, too. But right now, he isn’t going to quickly fall into line with what you want. He’ll look for it himself. So we as parents need to occupy a slightly different place. My father makes this point—he used to tell me:

22:57 Speaker 2 “From age thirteen, my job is to be a salesman for Yiddishkeit.” You have to let go of the position of telling him what to do. Amazing, amazing. That’s an amazing way to put it. A salesman—I’m sold. That’s exactly it. Because you represent Yiddishkeit to him, and that’s another point parents must remember. Our children grow up at home. It’s true that they receive Yiddishkeit in yeshivas and from mashpi’im. I think the yeshivas do wonderful work, and I do want to touch on another point there. Who am I to judge yeshivas? But in my experience, overall, they really do know how to do this work wonderfully. And I think they, specifically, can do that work—as I said earlier. We as parents are presenting Yiddishkeit to our children. I completely accept that: we’re its salespeople. If we know how to do that properly, our children will love Yiddishkeit, love a Chassidic way of life, and connect with it. One child might connect very quickly and take to it, while another might take a little longer, but it will connect them. I really like this example: Suppose you invite a guest to your home. We’re here in Tzfas, and someone comes to you from Ascent, a Jewish—

24:30 Speaker 9 Yes, Ascent. For anyone who doesn’t know it… say a few words about Ascent.

24:34 Speaker 2 Ascent is a Jewish spiritual center here in Tzfas, and it hosts groups.

24:44 Speaker 9 On Shabbos, the groups go to various Chabad families’ homes.

24:47 Speaker 2 Yes, they split up among the homes of Chabad families. It’s amazing. Hosting these people is a very interesting experience. To be honest, I haven’t had the chance in quite a while, but the times I have, it’s been an amazing experience. So a Jewish guest comes to your home. Let’s say he doesn’t currently observe Torah and mitzvos, he isn’t right-wing, okay? He doesn’t believe, he doesn’t… He sits with you and talks, and you might disagree about something. You disagree, but your conversation remains very respectful, accepting, and considerate. Why? After all, he’s saying things that… I can already feel the people listening to us shifting uncomfortably: “Wait, where is he taking this? Is my son some nonreligious, left-wing young man, or whatever?”

25:50 Speaker 9 A guest.

25:50 Speaker 2 He’s a Chabad chossid. He was born here, he studied here, he grew up here. Right, right. But right now, at this point in his teenage years, with the questions he has and the turns he’s going through, your part in helping him remain connected to his upbringing, to Chassidic life and to Yiddishkeit, is to look at him for a moment as though he were someone you were bringing closer to Yiddishkeit. You need to greet him warmly, support him, believe in him, and trust him. Those are the things.

26:29 Speaker 9 Do you mean to that extent? You gave the example of a guest. A guest might come and say something I disagree with, but because he’s a guest, I’ll respond accordingly. I’ll say, “I understand what you’re saying; I hadn’t thought…” Do you think that’s the level our conversations with our teenagers need to be at?

26:44 Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. We need to make room for their opinions. Now, making room for their opinions is one thing; allowing everything is another. We’re chassidim. We have our path, the Torah and mitzvos, the path the Rebbe gives us, and so on. That’s what we pass on to our children. And when a child comes to you and suddenly holds a completely different view, you need to speak with him gently and kindly, to have a conversation and listen. You might come and tell him no. I’m not saying you can’t tell children no, okay? That’s the difficulty in talking about adolescence, and I think also the difficulty in actually applying the ideas being presented. It’s very, very delicate. Okay?

27:36 Speaker 9 Yes.

27:37 Speaker 2 It’s clear to me, at least, that I can tell my son no, even when he’s a teenager. Okay? My child wants to take the car, and I won’t let him, so I’ll tell him no. He might get upset, he might bargain, he might argue. I’m not afraid of that, because arguments with teenagers can help them mature. They learn to deal with things. It gives them the feeling that “I’m grown up; I have my own opinion. He didn’t give me the car, but I do want it.” Okay, that’s a fairly external example. But when it comes to Torah and mitzvos, it’s very different. It’s important to understand that. There’s a big difference between parents and children arguing about whether to tidy the house and arguing about whether to get up for davening. Why is it such a big difference? Because when we’re talking about tidying the house, it’s you and me. I said to tidy up, you didn’t, and you feel grown up because of it. More or less, that’s where it ends.

28:56 Speaker 10 Yes.

28:56 Speaker 2 When we’re talking about getting up for davening, and it turns into an argument, a fight, something charged with emotion and anger, then I’m bringing Hakadosh Boruch Hu into our argument. In your eyes—as my son, in this example—I represent Hakadosh Boruch Hu. This is no longer just an argument between you and me.

29:19 Speaker 10 A father and son.

29:20 Speaker 2 It’s as though I’m bringing Hakadosh Boruch Hu into it. Now you’re arguing with Hakadosh Boruch Hu, not with me. So if I want to feel grown up, I won’t do what Hakadosh Boruch Hu says. That’s why it’s much, much more delicate, and we need to pay attention. And as I said earlier, it also depends on the child. For some children, the whole subject of emunah, Torah and mitzvos, and kabbolas ol comes much more naturally.

29:47 Speaker 10 Yes, I once heard you use the terms “a choosing soul” and “a chosen soul.” Would you like to—

29:52 Speaker 2 You’ve set me up perfectly.

29:54 Speaker 10 Yes.

29:55 Speaker 2 Ah, yes.

29:55 Speaker 10 What does that mean, briefly?

29:56 Speaker 2 So, it’s—

29:57 Speaker 10 A choosing soul, a choosing soul. It refers to the teenagers themselves. There are two types you mentioned.

30:02 Speaker 2 The teenagers—I’ll explain. This concept came to me after seeing hundreds of boys over the course of my work in education. I was trying to find some kind of definition that would help me understand where a particular child was headed: when he became a teenager, more or less what challenges would he face? That led me to this theoretical distinction between a choosing soul and a chosen soul. The idea is that some children are chosen souls. They go along much more readily with what we parents instill in them at home. Generally, all children go along with it until adolescence, and then the differences start to emerge. But even before adolescence, you can see that some children go along more readily with the way things are done at home, with their parents’ requests, with helping around the house. Things flow more easily with them. Those are the children I call chosen souls, because, generally, when they reach adolescence, they’ll get through it more easily in a certain sense. That doesn’t mean they won’t go through adolescence at all. Everyone goes through it in some way. Even sweet, good, chassidishe children experience adolescence, and we have a role there as parents too. But I’m straying into something else. That’s a chosen soul. A choosing soul is a child who has to choose for himself. Now, even a child who is a chosen soul, as we said earlier, ultimately chooses for himself. But he’ll arrive at the choice you, as a parent, want him to make more quickly. He’ll choose for himself, and ultimately—

32:20 Speaker 2 He’ll connect with it himself, he’ll want it, and he’ll be connected to the Rebbe and everything else of his own accord. But it will happen more quickly. A choosing soul is someone who needs to work things through, examine them, ask questions, and clarify them. And I don’t necessarily mean questions about emunah. It can show up in how he does things, in his learning, or in all sorts of other areas. But he needs to choose. He needs to feel that he’s the one who chose. Personally, this definition explained a great many things for me. I’d see different things happening and say to myself, “Wait, this child is a choosing soul. Okay, then that’s what he needs. He needs me to let him choose.” Letting a child choose is the greatest gift we can give our children. Okay? “You chose this. You chose this.” Now, that choice doesn’t have to happen in a vacuum. I can ask someone, perhaps a mashpia, to speak with him. I can make some kind of campaign for him. I can do all sorts of things around him to help him choose it—so that, in the end, he chooses it. But as you said earlier, we’re salespeople here, and a good salesperson has to make sure that, in the end, the customer chooses the product. If he starts shouting at his customer, he’s lost him. And if he slaps him, he’s certainly lost him. We can’t afford to remain the same kind of parents. I’m not saying that’s the right approach in childhood, but let’s say that in childhood the harm from it is minimal—provided, of course, that it isn’t some kind of method of education. But suppose a parent, by mistake, in a moment of anger, slapped his five-year-old child.

34:10 Speaker 2 The effect of that will be minor and almost—what’s the word? It won’t be felt. The child will move on.

34:26 Speaker 11 Life goes on, too.

34:27 Speaker 2 Everything will be fine. It won’t leave some lasting scar. But if you slap a teenager, that’s something he’ll carry with him for a very, very long time. A very long time. I don’t know; I doubt he’ll ever forget it. This is already an age when—as a parent once said to me—you stop slapping your child because you’re afraid of him. Okay, perhaps that works as a joke, but at this age, the question is, “What gives you the right to shout at me? You’re shouting at me.” So why do we shout? Because we’re hurting. Because we… But what we need to know is that if a parent got angry and shouted at his teenager, he needs to take note of it and make amends, rather than thinking, “I did it; I educated him.” You didn’t educate him. You’re no longer educating him. You’re no longer educating him during adolescence.

35:28 Speaker 11 The role is different. Your role is different.

35:30 Speaker 2 During adolescence, you’re not educating him; you’re drawing him close.

35:35 Speaker 11 Okay, a lot was said there.

35:37 Speaker 2 Yes.

35:38 Speaker 11 So we talked about the age, and I’ll try to go over it a bit. I hope you’ll correct me if I’ve missed something. We talked about the age and about our role, which often unsettles us as parents. What is our role as parents? It’s to shift gears, to change our mindset. Instead of being the people who are always setting all the boundaries, we take a different place.

36:04 Speaker 2 Yes.

36:05 Speaker 11 I’d like us to try to take this a bit further. We also expanded on the idea that there’s a choosing soul and a chosen soul. I do want us to bring this down to examples, to the simplest practical things, so people can really take it from here and use it.

36:23 Speaker 2 Okay.

36:23 Speaker 11 What kinds of things?

36:25 Speaker 2 Okay, so let’s start with teenagers who are having some friction with their parents. I’m not talking about anything drastic or extreme, any major upheavals. Okay? Let’s talk about teenagers who are, let’s say, going through adolescence fairly smoothly. So what, in practical terms, should we as parents do? Say you ask your child to tidy his room, and because he’s at the beginning of adolescence—which is very typical—he starts shouting: “Why should I? What happened? I’m always the one who tidies up. Nobody else does it. You always want something from me. I’m in the middle of a game, I’m…” All those kinds of reactions. What do you do? If it’s a younger child, before adolescence, you’ll usually say, “Listen, I’m coming back here in five minutes. I want to see the room tidy.” And usually—again, of course it depends on how you’ve set boundaries and so on—but that’s how you set a boundary for a child.

37:45 Speaker 11 We won’t get into that now—

37:46 Speaker 2 Right, and that should work. What happens with a teenager? With a teenager, you’ll need to find a way to his heart. That doesn’t mean you start pleading with him. It doesn’t mean you make him promises from here to Australia. No, no, no. But it does mean stopping for a moment and thinking. I’ve asked someone for something. Suppose I go to a grocery store and ask the shopkeeper to get something down for me—actually, a grocery store isn’t such a good example. Say I go to a friend’s house and ask him to show me something valuable he owns, a stamp album, for example. And I can tell my friend is in some kind of turmoil. He’s not with me right now; he’s upset, something’s bothering him. He’s not really available to come and show me that stamp album. He’s not really available to be with me, and I try to think, okay, what do I do at this point? Of course, with parents and children, this isn’t a friend or a stamp album. I asked him to tidy his room. It’s a perfectly legitimate request, and so on and so forth. But as legitimate as your request is, it’s also very, very natural for him to refuse to tidy his room. Not because he’s insolent, not because he doesn’t know what honoring his parents means, and not because he has no values. No, no, no. That’s not it at all. It’s part of his natural development. What can I do as a parent? Often what works here is speaking firmly, but at his level. I don’t come and tell him, “You have five minutes

39:47 Speaker 2 to tidy up, and that’s that.” It doesn’t work that way. Instead, you say to yourself: Wait, I’m speaking to a young adult here. Imagine this child is twenty. He’s not going through adolescence; he’s twenty, and he’s not in the mood to tidy up right now. Go over to him, put a hand on his shoulder, and say, “Come on, my man, help me out. We need some help here.” Now, to us as parents, that can sound like, “Whoa, what am I doing? The kid is only ten or eleven.” Yes, we’re talking about the beginning of adolescence. True—but that’s what he needs. That’s what he needs. Once he feels that you treat him like a grown-up rather than a child, he’ll do anything for you, because that’s what he wants, that’s what he needs. It’s like oxygen to him.

40:39 Speaker 12 If I understand correctly, the difference is whether I see him or don’t see him. In other words, if I come to him taking it for granted that he has to tidy his room, then I haven’t seen him. I’ve seen what I, as a father, need to happen, and his job is to do it because he’s my son. But when we’re talking about a teenager, there’s a person here. How does he feel? What does he think? Who is he? You approach him respectfully, the way you would a guest in your home. Is that—

41:06 Speaker 2 Right, right. Now, sometimes that won’t work.

41:09 Speaker 12 Yes.

41:10 Speaker 2 Sometimes, as anyone who spends a lot of time with teenagers can imagine—and anyone who has one knows—it doesn’t always work.

41:16 Speaker 12 Yes.

41:17 Speaker 2 And then you find yourself wanting to convey something to your son: an educational point, something you think matters for his life or will help him move forward, something you genuinely care about. After all, you’re his father or mother. And if you really want to do something deeper, let’s call it that, it’s not just about getting him to do one specific thing, to tidy something up. You want to talk to him about something a little deeper in general. Say you notice a pattern of behavior that, in the end, will hurt him. I don’t know—say he keeps waking up late and starting his day at two o’clock, and you say, “Come on, let’s talk about this for a moment. Let’s understand what he’s losing from it and what he’s gaining,” and so on.

42:21 Speaker 12 I think that in itself is a new idea: talking about it with the young man.

42:25 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

42:26 Speaker 12 As a parent.

42:27 Speaker 2 Yes. So in that conversation, if you really want to accomplish something—if you see that you need to do something deeper, and you want to get him involved, but it isn’t working, even though you’re approaching him very respectfully, in a very human, mature way, speaking to him as an equal—something is stuck. At that point, you need to consider a few things. First, don’t insist on having that conversation right then. You have to find a good time for it. A good time means a time when neither of you is arguing about anything. Sometimes that could be over a cup of coffee at home, and sometimes over a cup of coffee at a restaurant. Find an opportunity when you’re both at your most relaxed and comfortable, and then say, “Listen, actually, there’s something I’d like to talk to you about.” And open it up—

43:20 Speaker 12 If something happens, the first thing is not to react to it immediately.

43:24 Speaker 2 During adolescence, if you don’t know how to respond, it’s better to keep quiet. I’m putting that a bit bluntly, but it’s so true. You see it so often. Silence can be interpreted in a thousand ways, so you can always come back and clarify it afterward, okay? You’ll always have an opportunity to address your silence. You kept quiet. So what happened? What did he do? He didn’t get up. He didn’t tidy his room. He didn’t—I’ll take an extreme example—he didn’t go to davening. You kept quiet because you didn’t know how to respond. You went and looked into it a little, and later you met him at a good opportunity and talked about it. That increases the chances of your approach to education, your way of doing things, getting through to him by hundreds of percent, compared with approaching him with the wrong response. And this is a sensitive age. Yes, it’s a sensitive age. You can’t deny that. You can’t. As I said earlier, you can’t copy and paste from childhood into adolescence. It’s a very sensitive age, and we as parents have a very, very sensitive and important position there because of our whole relationship with the child. On the one hand, that relationship is the child’s life, okay? A child who has a father and mother who love him—that’s a gift, that’s his whole life. It gives him so much. And on the other hand, that’s precisely why there’s so much emotional involvement in working with the child. So we need to be very, very careful as parents. I do want to address the yeshivos for a moment. I mentioned them earlier because I think many parents don’t sufficiently

45:30 Speaker 2 They use this tool. I see it as a tool. Yeshiva is a tool. Why is yeshiva a tool? First of all—and I hope listeners will forgive me for speaking about yeshiva for a moment in terms of adolescence. Of course, yeshiva is the holiest of the holy; it produces Torah scholars. No one disputes that, and it goes without saying. That’s clear to all of us. A child who becomes a Torah scholar, a chossid—that’s wonderful. But I’m saying something beyond that. I’m talking now about parents who genuinely want to work with their children so they become Temimim, okay? Or who want to help them get moving. Each child is at a different point. Yeshiva is a tool. What do I mean? Yeshiva has an ability we don’t have as parents. It can bring Torah and mitzvos to a child without all the emotion, fear and alarm I mentioned earlier, or the concern about what everyone around them thinks. Many parents react out of fear. You see your child isn’t davening, or makes a bracha without a hat and jacket, or doesn’t go to the mikveh—I’m just thinking of examples—and you start thinking, “Here’s the next kid in the neighborhood to go off the path.” But that’s not where he is at all. Usually, at the beginning, that isn’t where he is. We need to understand that. He isn’t there. If you take a few of the right steps, you may well be able to change things. Maybe not. Again, there are no guarantees, but at least do what’s right for you to do as a parent. And that certainly doesn’t mean shouting at him or going head-to-head with him.

47:28 Speaker 2 It means working the right way. Now, one of the tools we parents have for working with our children is the yeshivos, especially the younger boys’ yeshivos. Yeshiva gedola is already a later stage. In yeshiva ketana, a boy is forming his character, and others are helping shape him. As I started to say earlier, yeshivos ketanos can demand bittul from a student. They can require him to follow the schedule, check whether he’s been to the mikveh and hold roll call. All of that comes in a way that’s much easier for an adolescent to accept. Now, we do see students who don’t accept the yeshiva’s schedule, and that isn’t right. So I say we parents should remember that yeshiva is a tool for us, because it has several elements beyond the general framework. That framework is important and good: at the end of the day, a student is within the four cubits of Tomchei Temimim, absorbing something from the walls, the atmosphere, the schedule and everything around him. And there are people in the yeshivos we can turn to—mashpi’im, teachers, counselors and other staff members. It’s worthwhile for every parent with a child in yeshiva to get in touch with them and try to work through them, letting them provide the overall support, while the parent makes sure, from time to time, to do something special for his child—perhaps a visit or something—

49:07 Speaker 13 So it isn’t a matter of sending him off and forgetting about him. As if I send my child—

49:09 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yeshiva—

49:10 Speaker 13 And he’ll come back to me.

49:10 Speaker 2 Yeshiva is something we parents need to invest in from our end. Now, I want to give an example, okay? I mentioned it earlier, too. A boy wants to come home, and he tells you he’s going to tell the rabbi some story. What do you do as a parent?

49:37 Speaker 13 Yes.

49:39 Speaker 2 …

49:40 Speaker 13 To get permission to go home.

49:41 Speaker 2 Yes. Now, if you panic and say, “Come on, how did you turn into such a liar? How did you suddenly become so crafty? What’s going on with you? Have you completely lost your mind?” your child will most likely say, “Okay, I understand.” He might not do it that time, but you haven’t necessarily taught him anything. On the other hand, you can talk to him and say, “Listen, I’m very happy when you come home. It makes me happy. But I don’t think you need to lie to do that. You can simply tell the yeshiva administration. They know you; they know who you are. Talk to them, and they’ll tell you yes or no.” Now, we need to be able to trust the administration here. Often you don’t fully trust them, and then you start interfering in what they do. I think that’s a mistake. You have your experience of your child, and the yeshiva has its experience of him. It’s good that those are two separate perspectives: yours as a parent and theirs as the yeshiva staff. If he goes to the mashgiach and asks to go home because he wants a little break, and the mashgiach says yes, accept it. Accept it. Trust that mashgiach. He knows your child. As a parent, you may think, “Oh no, what’s he going to do at home?” Relax. That isn’t your job. He has a yeshiva administration. He’ll come to you for Shabbos, or for a weekend, or for a day or two, and afterward he’ll

51:29 Speaker 2 go back. He has his yeshiva to educate him. You don’t need to interfere there.

51:34 Speaker 13 Now, those are slightly different things. Earlier you showed how yeshiva is a tool: stay in touch with the staff, talk to them. But here you’re saying, “Leave it to them—”

51:45 Speaker 2 In my view, that’s another way of using the tool. Why? Because when you understand your place and the yeshiva’s place, it’s easier to respond. Say I know it wouldn’t be good for my son to come home, just as an example, but I have no one on the other side to provide a counterbalance. In my opinion, the worst thing I could do as a parent is tell him, “Don’t come home.” A child wants to come home, and you tell him not to? You can say, “Listen, I think…” You can tell him, “Listen, you’ve made it through a week; try to hold out a little longer.” You can say that. But ultimately, if a child wants to come home, I as a parent always welcome him. At the same time, I know there’s a framework on the other side—people who know what they’re doing, know how to educate, know how to read a young man’s feelings and know how to set boundaries for him. When they set a boundary and require him to stay anyway, that’s much better for both him and me. On the one hand, he’s heard that he’s welcome at home; on the other, he’s heard that he does need to stay. That doesn’t mean you become anti-yeshiva, okay? You don’t start saying, “What do you mean? Let him come home!” or “What do you mean? Don’t let him come home!” No. That isn’t your job. You don’t need to decide when he’s allowed to leave yeshiva and when he isn’t. There’s a mashgiach, there are teachers and mashpi’im, there’s a staff. They’re the ones who decide, based on their understanding.

53:19 Speaker 2 And that’s why I said it’s a tool. Why do I call it a tool? Because yeshiva is something I can give my child during adolescence. It’s a gift we can give our children at that age, because yeshiva can accomplish all kinds of things that we as parents are less able to accomplish. Some boys really understand the magnitude of the gift they’re receiving. They have no doubts, and they can and want to keep going without wanting to come home. That calls for a different approach. But there are boys who do need to come home. When a child says he wants to come home, it means there’s something he feels he still hasn’t received enough of at home, okay? It isn’t our job to stop him from coming. We need to let him know that coming home is always possible, while trusting the yeshiva administration completely to know when to allow it and when not to. Administrations know how to do that, which is why I said at the outset that they really are good at what they do.

54:27 Speaker 14 So, we were talking about adolescence. We went a bit into the relationship between the yeshiva and the parents, but I want us to come back to adolescence. We said that parents need to make a switch: we become salespeople. Of course, there’s a place for saying no, and it will always depend on the boy, on the person making the choice and the person being guided. What other things can we parents do—in our behavior, in our responses—as part of this change we need to make with adolescents?

54:59 Speaker 2 Okay. I don’t remember if I mentioned respect.

55:04 Speaker 14 We spoke a little about treating him like a guest, yes.

55:05 Speaker 2 Yes. That whole question of respect. I always need to remember that one of the things that most sets off an adolescent is feeling disrespected. He’s at the transition between childhood and full adulthood. He isn’t an adult yet, but he isn’t a child either, and when he feels people are looking at him as a child, it devastates him.

55:31 Speaker 14 Yes.

55:32 Speaker 2 So respect means treating him as someone mature. Okay? That’s respect. You can keep in mind that image of someone you’re trying to bring closer. And perhaps another point is to look at his potential. Where do I see this child a few years from now? And I want to say something to worried parents: over the years, what I’ve seen is that what happens with a child during adolescence tells you very little about what will happen with him in the future. Very little. It’s true that sometimes it looks alarming—you think, “What will become of him?” But it tells you very little, because there comes a stage when the child himself, usually, makes the switch. He realizes he did something foolish here and something foolish there, gets back on track, and sometimes goes much further than others. I’ve seen quite a few cases of children who did the wildest things and, in the end, became the most dedicated Chassidic bochurim or yungeleit.

56:51 Speaker 3 Shluchim, shluchim.

56:52 Speaker 2 Shluchim and everything. When I, as a parent, can recognize that potential, see it, imagine it, and approach my child and speak to him from that place—not talk to him about his potential; that’s another point. We mustn’t use his potential as a weapon against him, and unfortunately, as parents, we do that a lot. “What’s with you? If you’d just put in a little effort, do you know what you could do? Do you know what you’re capable of?” We’re not helping him. We’re not moving him forward.

57:24 Speaker 3 You need to hold on to that and speak with the boy.

57:26 Speaker 2 Hold on to it and look at him from that perspective. I don’t think we need to look far for an example. When you look at the Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach, and see how he approaches people and asks them to do things, you see that the Rebbe isn’t looking at where a person stands right now. Someone comes to him who isn’t a Chabad chossid at all and barely observes Torah and mitzvos, and the Rebbe tells him to take care of some Jewish matter in his city. The Rebbe teaches us to look at a person’s strengths, at what he can become and what he’s capable of doing. That’s how we need to look at our children. What are you capable of? I’m not using that to attack you; I’m trying to help you get there by respecting you, talking with you, believing in you, trusting you, even learning with you. Do you know how often we’re at home with our children and don’t set aside an hour to sit and learn with one of them? Now, learning with a child isn’t about the learning itself, or how much you cover. It’s about that moment, that—

58:49 Speaker 3 Connection.

58:49 Speaker 2 The connection between father and son as they sit together around something spiritual. But the point isn’t how many pages I get through with my child. There’s a child who loves learning, and you’ll cover a lot with him, and that’s what he enjoys. And there’s another child for whom it’s just the fact that you’re sitting together. We don’t always do that.

59:10 Speaker 3 Yes.

59:10 Speaker 2 Now, there’s something else about adolescents that I didn’t emphasize: how much they need us as parents. That’s the great paradox. Adolescents will show us that they don’t need their parents, and there’s a reason for that.

59:23 Speaker 3 Because they want to build their own identity. Right.

59:25 Speaker 2 They’re building their identity, and their friends are very important to them. They’re very much looking for that connection with friends, so they gravitate toward those circles. But apart from infants, who are completely dependent on their parents—if the mother doesn’t feed a baby, he won’t eat; he’s helpless—adolescence is the stage of life when children have an enormous need for us as parents. That need doesn’t come out as “Do this for me, help me,” because they seem to manage on their own. It’s a need for our presence in their lives. And we’re present in their lives when we talk with them, when we tell them what we think about different things, and sometimes even when we argue with them. They’ll argue back, they won’t listen, and they’ll make it look as though they disagree. But in the end, you’re his father and you’re his mother. Nothing is more important in an adolescent’s life than you yourselves—what you say, what you think, and what you believe in. That’s what matters most to them. Now—

1:00:51 Speaker 4 It can look a little different.

1:00:52 Speaker 2 It can look different when it comes from a place of anger, from a place of—

1:01:03 Speaker 4 Disappointment.

1:01:04 Speaker 2 Criticism—really, any kind of criticism. I said this a little earlier: let’s remember that adolescents can hardly accept criticism. It’s not because they’re bad, or insolent, or throwing off the yoke. They can’t accept criticism; it has to do with the physiological and cognitive development of the brain and various processes. Criticism doesn’t work there. You want to say something to an adolescent? Give him a compliment. A compliment works far better than criticism. So again, if we want to succeed with our adolescents, influence them, help them progress, guide them, and support them, we need to look for approaches that work with adolescents. In this area, for example, what works isn’t criticism but compliments. Give more compliments than criticism. What works with an adolescent isn’t instructions but conversations. So have conversations. If we don’t make that transition, we’ll find ourselves going backward in some respects. I do want to address something—tell me if I’m straying from the—

1:02:27 Speaker 4 No, that’s perfectly fine.

1:02:28 Speaker 2 —guidelines. I want to talk for a moment about good, Chassidic adolescent boys who don’t present any problems.

1:02:38 Speaker 4 Meaning a child whose parent isn’t necessarily experiencing a lot of challenges with him, or—

1:02:41 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Good kids. So I want to tell the parents listening to us: in my opinion, since every child goes through adolescence, and the presence of his parents during adolescence is very significant, there’s no need to go looking for where my child’s adolescence is showing itself. I don’t need to look for it. If my child is doing well and everything’s fine, boruch Hashem, thank Hashem—just be grateful. But that doesn’t exempt me from sitting down with him for a father-son conversation at least once a week. It doesn’t exempt me from—

1:03:27 Speaker 4 What does a conversation like that look like?

1:03:29 Speaker 2 Between father and son?

1:03:30 Speaker 4 Yes. We don’t need to get into it in depth right now. Just give us two or three words, because—

1:03:34 Speaker 2 Okay, a conversation—

1:03:35 Speaker 4 Maybe we assume it’s very easy. We’re parents, after all. What does a Thursday phone call to a son in yeshiva look like?

1:03:41 Speaker 2 Well, adolescents in general share less. They’re less likely to sit with you for a long conversation. You have to find something. You have to find what I can sit and talk about with my son.

1:03:54 Speaker 4 Even—no, what about just a phone call once a week? “How are you? How’s it going? How are things?”

1:03:59 Speaker 2 No, I mean beyond that. “How are you? What’s going on?” That’s keeping in touch, and it’s always important and worthwhile. When your son is in yeshiva and away from home, you should call him. He’ll see that you called, answer, and you’ll exchange a few words about how his day in yeshiva went. As we know, teenagers—especially boys, if that’s who we’re talking about—are less likely to share much. But he heard you, and you heard him. Of course. But I mean beyond that. I mean a situation like now, during bein hazmanim, when boys are home a lot. Again, I’m talking about boys who go to bein hazmanim yeshivas, okay? Boys who sit and learn, and we say, “Everything’s good, really, everything’s fine.” But I think that if we as parents are a little more present, if we find time to have a conversation with them—a father-and-son conversation: “How are you? What’s going on? What are you learning? Which sugya?” Something that’s just between the two of us—we’ll improve their experience of adolescence and strengthen their abilities and how they function many times over. In other words, even with good boys, when you say, “They’re doing everything they’re supposed to. Why do I need to be there?” Yes, you need to be there, because if you are, things will be much better.

1:05:24 Speaker 5 And through conversation?

1:05:25 Speaker 2 Yes, through conversation. You don’t need too much. Again, let’s remember: a teenager needs his own space. He doesn’t need you in his life all the time. But even with these good, Chassidish boys, you need to sit with them and talk. And I’ll say something else: unfortunately, over the years we’ve also met boys who, on the surface, seemed Chassidish and good, but—

1:05:53 Speaker 5 Something was going on inside.

1:05:54 Speaker 2 Something was going on inside. And maybe a conversation, maybe paying attention, maybe an understanding that I have to pay attention to my teenage son no matter what—that might have helped. Again, I’m not saying there are any guarantees, or—

1:06:11 Speaker 5 That’s education.

1:06:12 Speaker 2 There’s no one method, right? But if we’re talking about a parent’s role during adolescence, it’s to be present, to respect the teenager, to talk with him, to respond when I know what to say and not respond when I don’t. And perhaps I’ll add one more thing. I said this earlier too: when it comes to observing Torah and mitzvos, you have to know that the sensitivity is greater there, because you become a representative of... of that...

1:06:46 Speaker 5 So what would you say to parents who are already in the thick of it? The train has left the station; they’re there. What can I take away for tomorrow, or even this evening? One small thing that will help me a little. We’ve talked about a lot, but what can I start doing tomorrow that will help me see my teenager a little more?

1:07:10 Speaker 2 Okay. Try to think of one moment during the week. Let’s start with once a week. Maybe it could even be every day, but let’s start with once a week. Some small gesture that tells your teenager, “I see that you’re growing up.” It could be a note, a treat, a cup of coffee, learning something together. It could be—

1:07:46 Speaker 5 You mean not the words themselves, but—

1:07:48 Speaker 2 Yes, something.

1:07:49 Speaker 5 The message will come across.

1:07:50 Speaker 2 Some kind of message. Say you stop and think, “I have a teenager at home. Where’s an opportunity for me to tell him, ‘Listen, I see something in you. You’re growing up’?” For one child—

1:08:03 Speaker 5 That it’s a great privilege and responsibility.

1:08:04 Speaker 2 If, say, once a week you tell him, “Come, let’s sit and learn something together,” that will give him that feeling. I’m putting it this way because every parent really knows their own child best and knows what works best; there’s no one thing that suits everyone. For another child, saying, “I need your help with this, because I trust you,” will do it. For another, giving him a special treat just for him will do it. There are all kinds of things we as parents can find that tell him, “I see you. I see that you’re growing up. I see that you’re older. You’re not a little child anymore.” And I don’t say it to him; I simply show him. I can ask his advice, okay? You go to your child and ask his advice about something at home or something you’re thinking about, or you share something with him. It gives him a good feeling, the feeling of being an adult. Think about yourselves: if someone comes to ask your advice about something, it makes you feel that you know something, that your opinion counts, that you matter. That’s what they need. If we can take the time to think about this and find some small way to show him, “I see that you’re growing up,” we’ve already taken a step. Beyond that, there’s everything we’ve discussed: understanding the subject in the first place and listening. As we said at the beginning of the podcast, there’s a lot of material on this subject. Don’t leave it at “I know,” because when you actually encounter a situation,

1:09:41 Speaker 2 you don’t always know what to do. If you learn and look into it, you’ll probably know. I’m not saying this as though I know everything. I don’t; I’m also constantly trying to learn. If you learn and look into things, you know how to respond. And if you don’t know how to respond—if we don’t know how to respond—it’s better not to respond right away. Wait a little; nothing will happen. Seek advice, look into it, ask questions, and then respond appropriately, because it’s critical. This is the age when, as you said earlier, we’re presenting Yiddishkeit to them.

1:10:19 Speaker 6 And now, for the boys. I mean, I don’t know if a young bochur would stay with us this whole time, but for a young bochur: what message would you give him? Have you supported him lately?

1:10:31 Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

1:10:32 Speaker 6 Right in the thick of it.

1:10:34 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes.

1:10:34 Speaker 6 Right at the height of this stage.

1:10:36 Speaker 2 A young bochur. Well, I’ll tell you, boys today know a great deal. They really do. If I were speaking to young bochurim now, I’d say: You know what adolescence is, and you know how you feel. You know how much you like yourselves, and how much you dislike yourselves in different situations. Try to face yourselves and say, “I don’t like this. I can’t work on it yet. I can’t overcome it yet. I don’t know. My father says something to me, and it sets me off. That’s it.” I don’t like that. And I’m not saying this because we’re having a conversation and it’s some imaginary scenario. No, that’s how it is. In a teenager’s experience, he’s well aware of many things about himself that he hasn’t come to terms with. He doesn’t want that to be who he is. Okay? He doesn’t like the arguments with his parents, for example. He doesn’t.

1:12:00 Speaker 6 Or where he stands on various things.

1:12:02 Speaker 2 Yes. So wherever you find yourselves saying, “This isn’t perfect; I still have work to do here,” just make a note of it for yourselves. One day this will pass. This age will pass. And when it does, you’ll be able to say, “I’m taking this from my teenage years, and I’m leaving that behind, where it belongs—in my teenage years.”

1:12:28 Speaker 6 In other words, there are many experiences that I, as a teenager, might feel—

1:12:35 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:12:35 Speaker 6 It passes. It passes. You don’t realize—

1:12:37 Speaker 2 It passes, and there will be good things you’ll take from this age. It’s not an age that’s only... As I said at the start, it’s a wonderful age, full of energy and many good things. There will be things you leave behind, and some things will stay with you—even some of the imperfect things—and over time you’ll sort them out. For some boys it’s a very turbulent period; for others it’s easier. You get through it.

1:13:07 Speaker 6 Yes.

1:13:07 Speaker 2 You get through it. And with Hashem’s help, I hope we’ll manage to draw on the strengths we’re given—as parents and educators who work with these young people at this age—and know how to give the right response at the right time, because that’s, that’s...

1:13:32 Speaker 6 A tip from you about serving Hashem or education—something you can share with us.

1:13:39 Speaker 2 Look, one thing I can share is a concept I learned at the Chinuch LaNa’ar educational institutions. The concept is called “while it’s cool.” Maybe I should mention that Dr. Michael Bend [?] taught us this idea. “While it’s cool” means that, generally, it’s better to deal with things not in the heat of the moment—unless someone is actually in danger or needs protection. But if you can wait—and with most educational matters, you can usually wait a little—you can approach the child afterward, approach the student afterward, talk with him, have a conversation with him, work with him. That’s better.

1:14:33 Speaker 6 The opposite of “while it’s hot.” So, “while it’s cool.”

1:14:35 Speaker 2 “While it’s cool.” That’s one thing. The second thing I’d recommend to every parent is: don’t stop learning how to parent. It’s true that there’s a lot of information and a lot of advice, and not everything gets put into practice. Not everything can be put into practice, and it isn’t always easy. But every so often, out of everything you hear, you can take one thing for yourself, try it, and do it. You can hold on to it for a conversation or an opportunity with your children. As people who are responsible for educating our children and our students, we ourselves have to keep learning and growing all the time, so that we truly do the best we’re capable of doing. And lots of tefillos, lots of tefillos.

1:15:48 Speaker 6 And siyata d’Shmaya.

1:15:49 Speaker 2 Yes. Everything we’ve discussed here is perhaps one percent of education. Tefillos and siyata d’Shmaya—that’s what we need most of all.

1:16:00 Speaker 6 Well, Rabbi Meir David, yasher koach. Thank you very much.

1:16:04 Speaker 2 My pleasure. Thank you. As I said at the beginning, it was a pleasure to be here, and—

1:16:10 Speaker 6 We have a lot more ahead of us, with Hashem’s help.

1:16:11 Speaker 2 With Hashem’s help.

1:16:12 Speaker 6 Yasher koach.